The Vw Emissions Scandal

[BilgeRat]

Can anyone here explain to me how an ECU could be programmed to "know" the car was being emissions tested? I'm not conversant enough in automotive software to have the faintest clue as to how they managed this, but I'd be curious to know how it was done...

Another article I read said that VW had been told to meet the emissions laws, urea injection would be necessary, but balked at the $335/vehicle it would cost. So now, it looks like they'll have to do a urea injection retrofit (That will certainly cost more than $335/vehicle!) AND pay the fines....

 

[bunchathrees]

The answer is likely something totally different, but I had assumed that the ECU had essentially two modes of operation: Idle & non-Idle. Many moons ago, Massachusetts did their emissions testing at idle. I have had newer vehicles for the intervening years and they have been exempt so my observations are likely out of date.

 

[RUCRAYZE]

"We", whomever is responsible,( supposed to be EPA ?)allows, as in many industries the testing to be the responsibility of the manufacturer. i.e.meat inspections, and recently peanut butter.
VW uses a company in Spain to do their testing. I don't think it's a single isolated case by one car company.
Businesses frequently do a cost analasis of how much to set aside from lawsuits vs, cost of repair. and at times if the numbers are right, attempt to take the risk.
The surprise here is the smoking guns, and the anger of the folks who bought it for it's green values and improved milage.
As mentioned Mass and other states if they just stuck a hose up the exhaust or some more technical testing- you'd have thought they would have picked it up years ago so by casual observation the testing was "fooled", or was unable to catch it.

I'm still of the opinion that VW will remain a viable company, but will hurt big time in the US

 

[Ian442]

Sorry but I tend to find emissions testing hit or miss.

PA does OBD2 and tailpipe and gas cap testing in just the more populated counties.

MD tests with a huge dynamic machine they drive your car to simulate actual driving conditions. Spend enough $$$ and they will exempt your POS car from passing.

MD did not test diesel when I had my Rabbit...that may have changed.

 

[Rob Croson]

Can anyone here explain to me how an ECU could be programmed to "know" the car was being emissions tested? I'm not conversant enough in automotive software to have the faintest clue as to how they managed this, but I'd be curious to know how it was done...

Probably something to do with how the tester connects to the car. In our state (Ohio) they don't do dynamometer testing, or even a tailpipe tester, on decently modern cars. (2000 and newer, maybe?) They just hook up to the OBD port, and let the car tell you if it meets the specs. You can even do it 24 hours a day via unattended self-service terminals. So the cheat probably involves detecting that something is hooked up to the diagnostics port, and changing behavior based on that. And I think that even back when tailpipe and dyno testing were standard, they didn't test diesels. As Ian442 says, testing varies from place to place, even within a state.

 

[bowers baldwin]

Can anyone here explain to me how an ECU could be programmed to "know" the car was being emissions tested? I'm not conversant enough in automotive software to have the faintest clue as to how they managed this, but I'd be curious to know how it was done...

Another article I read said that VW had been told to meet the emissions laws, urea injection would be necessary, but balked at the $335/vehicle it would cost. So now, it looks like they'll have to do a urea injection retrofit (That will certainly cost more than $335/vehicle!) AND pay the fines....

How did they do it?
VW’s “defeat device” is not a physical device but a programme in the engine software that lets the car perceive if is being driven under test conditions - and only then pull out all the anti-pollution stops. “Clean diesel” engines cut emissions through techniques such as adjusting air-fuel ratios and exhaust flows, and in some (though not most VWs) injecting a urea-based solution to render NOx harmless. When running normally, requiring greater performance, VW’s controls would not operate in the same way.

How does the defeat device know it's being tested?
The EPA tests have known practices and profiles. In many cases, the test vehicles are put on rollers and run at a certain speed for a certain time, then at another known speed for another known period. The car's central computer can detect whether inputs match those expected in test conditions.

 

[bowers baldwin]

 

[bowers baldwin]

"We", whomever is responsible,( supposed to be EPA ?)allows, as in many industries the testing to be the responsibility of the manufacturer. i.e.meat inspections, and recently peanut butter.
VW uses a company in Spain to do their testing. I don't think it's a single isolated case by one car company.
Businesses frequently do a cost analasis of how much to set aside from lawsuits vs, cost of repair. and at times if the numbers are right, attempt to take the risk.
The surprise here is the smoking guns, and the anger of the folks who bought it for it's green values and improved milage.
As mentioned Mass and other states if they just stuck a hose up the exhaust or some more technical testing- you'd have thought they would have picked it up years ago so by casual observation the testing was "fooled", or was unable to catch it.

I'm still of the opinion that VW will remain a viable company, but will hurt big time in the US

If other car companies can kill their customers and still recover, I am sure VW can get past a few dirty tailpipes. Only 3% of cars on U.S. roads are Diesel, so actually very few people will be affected (percentage wise anyway)

 

[bowers baldwin]

 

[satx]

All industrial countries should have exhaust gas tests at annual inspection, with the engine goosed well beyond idle RPMs. Exhaust fails means inspection fails.

I know France has exhaust gas checks annually, I got caught once. I wonder why the French tests didn't catch the excessive NOx from the VW diesels?