Tough Sell?

[Jeff Porter]

And there are a couple of articles out gas is about to spike again.

To what do the articles attribute to the possible price going up soon?

 

[bunchathrees]

I heard on NPR that the Saudis were trying to get OPEC members to all cut back 5%. I haven't heard if they reached agreement or if so, if they complied without cheating.

 

[Coss]

To what do the articles attribute to the possible price going up soon?

Here's from the "Gas Buddy" blog
https://blog.gasbuddy.com/posts/Gas-Prices-Start-February-Under-1-80/1715-636779-3540.aspx
The others could be rumor mill, but they all have some degree of truth to them; there are a number of energy producing companies that are just scrambling because they are losing money with crude being so cheap and the only choices they have are to go bankrupt or raise prices.
But that "losing money" statement can actually mean "we're not making as much as we know we can" or what I've been hit with in a couple of jobs "we're not meeting our growth projections" (aka cooking the books).

 

[AriLea]

I have to disagree with those in here that are claiming that mileage is not a strong selling point for the Elio. If they make it to production, it would be the first time that I'm aware of that a new vehicle would be cheaper to own and operate than an average paid off vehicle. I actually plan to sell my current daily driver ('04 Chevy Colorado, 21mpg) which will almost be a straight swap with the Elio as far as purchase costs and the operating costs should be reduced to 1/3-1/4 of the cost per mile after that. Nothing else comes close for affordability of transportation. It's not just going to replace "clunkers", it could replace a large portion of the daily driver used vehicles on the road right now.

I do want to point out something about the publishing of the mpg. I too am getting twitchy waiting for the reported mpg. But that's such a big issue susceptible to confusion and 'swift-boating' I'm sure Elio wants to give their final official measurement on it. What ever they say will get photo-finished into concrete. So I'm sure they want time to get it -tuned- in. And that will have to wait for an authentic no-holds barred production vehicle. Perhaps only one of the E-Series will make that grade.
It must come out at some point, since it affects the ATVM qualification. So that ATVM status might be the trigger that releases the final number.
Someone, somewhere probably can corner Jerome or Paul and ask, "I know it's unofficial subject to adjustments, but on your drive to LA did it make 75mpg in informal street -side measurements? Yes? OK did it make 80mpg?"

Political facets to language are such a funny thing. I know we've said "doesn't mater" but everyone should know that only means "doesn't matter as much as when gas prices were higher". These days the green-persona does indeed mater to people.

 

[Sethodine]

I do want to point out something about the publishing of the mpg. I too am getting twitchy waiting for the reported mpg. But that's such a big issue susceptible to confusion and 'swift-boating' I'm sure Elio wants to give their final official measurement on it. What ever they say will get photo-finished into concrete. So I'm sure they want time to get it -tuned- in. And that will have to wait for an authentic no-holds barred production vehicle. Perhaps only one of the E-Series will make that grade.
It must come out at some point, since it affects the ATVM qualification. So that ATVM status might be the trigger that releases the final number.
Someone, somewhere probably can corner Jerome or Paul and ask, "I know it's unofficial subject to adjustments, but on your drive to LA did it make 75mpg in informal street -side measurements? Yes? OK did it make 80mpg?"

Political facets to language are such a funny thing. I know we've said "doesn't mater" but everyone should know that only means "doesn't matter as much as when gas prices were higher". These days the green-persona does indeed mater to people.

Something else to keep in mind: according to the SEC filing, the advertised "84 MPG" is based on the formula used by the EPA. The DOE uses a different formula altogether. Based on the DOE's more simplified calculation method, the Elio should get around 95 MPG. If EM's estimates are even close to realistic, then the ATVM loan is in the bag once the Engineering cars can prove it on the track.

 

[Rickb]

Something else to keep in mind: according to the SEC filing, the advertised "84 MPG" is based on the formula used by the EPA. The DOE uses a different formula altogether. Based on the DOE's more simplified calculation method, the Elio should get around 95 MPG. If EM's estimates are even close to realistic, then the ATVM loan is in the bag once the Engineering cars can prove it on the track.

There are no other loan application requirements EM is short on to meet the ATVM loan approval beyond MPG?

 

[skygazer6033]

Don't know if anyone has noticed but the engine installation in the P5 doesn't appear to have any type of emission equipment installed. No visible EGR valve, not even a PCV or catalytic converter that l can see. It looks like the IAV guys have a lot more engineering to do before any meaningful fuel consumption figures can be determined. Personally I'm not going to get excited until the P5 or some E series are more in a production configuration (emission system, HVAC, articulated wiper system etc.). Only then will any mileage (and final price) figures be meaningful.

 

[Sethodine]

Don't know if anyone has noticed but the engine installation in the P5 doesn't appear to have any type of emission equipment installed. No visible EGR valve, not even a PCV or catalytic converter that l can see. It looks like the IAV guys have a lot more engineering to do before any meaningful fuel consumption figures can be determined. Personally I'm not going to get excited until the P5 or some E series are more in a production configuration (emission system, HVAC, articulated wiper system etc.). Only then will any mileage (and final price) figures be meaningful.

Are motorcycles even required to have EGR/PCV/etc?

There are no other loan application requirements EM is short on to meet the ATVM loan approval beyond MPG?

The other primary requirement is showing that you can repay the loan, and that the loan isn't the only thing keeping the company afloat. ATVM is a jump-start program, and by all measures EM will certainly be able to support itself once it goes into production. And remember, it was the DOE who first invited Elio Motors to apply for the ATVM, and not EM begging at the door of the DOE. Elio just needs hardware to prove its MPG conjectures.

 

[RUCRAYZE]

when gas prices go down, Americans rush out to buy the guzzlers - that in mind, should the project fall thru, the factory could re-open and build Elio Hummers

 

[Anderson Howard]

Lets have an Elio Pace car at the Indy 500