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Water Injection?
- Thread starter Jaybird
- Start date
WilliamH
Elio Addict
Should we also consider Hydroxy?
John Painter
Elio Addict
A wonderful bit of over engineering I think the Elio can live without and still get excellent mileage at rock bottom price. 
Ty
Elio Addict
Bruce Crower of Crower Cams developed a six stroke engine that had the regular four strokes and then, while the cylinder was hot, just after the exhaust stroke and while the piston was at the top of its stroke, would inject water that flashes to steam at a 1,600 to 1 ratio creating a second power stroke. It would then have another exhaust stroke to evacuate the steam. The result was added power, fuel economy, and a cooler engine. He did this in 2006. Apparently, having water and oil taking turns coating cylinder walls is a challenge they couldn't overcome. Here we are 9 years later and still nothing. Injecting water in with the gas doesn't track well to me.
Ty
Elio Addict
I don't understand why cooling the air in the cylinder helps. Sure, I know colder air has more oxygen BUT, the air is already in the cylinder. Whatever temperature it was coming in determines the oxygen concentration. Cooling it once in there doesn't add oxygen. I must just be missing something.
I do not know for certain, but I believe water injection and exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) have the similar effect in that they both reduce the NO (nitrogen oxide) pollutant by keeping the combustion temperature lower. NO only occurs at high temperatures, which is why high compression ratios (which increase combustion temperatures) disappeared and EGR appeared at the same time in the 60s/70s, when pollution restrictions appeared.
Mixing exhaust gas with the air reduces the concentration of O2 and thus less fuel can be burned. Burning less fuel means the combustion temperature will be less. This is my take on it, I do not know for certain. This bit about reducing pumping losses has always seemed trivial to me, or perhaps it is trying to put a good spin on something we gearheads would consider bad.
Water injection, on the other hand seems like a good idea. I believe it sprays a small mist of water into the cylinder which evaporates (or boils) instantly upon combustion, producing steam which creates greater pressure in the combustion chamber. The boiling water absorbs heat keeping the temperature down and reducing NO.
I believe both systems reduce NO, but water injection increases power while EGR robs power.
So why has water injection not been used in production vehicles? Do the manufacturers believe owners do not want to be bothered? Are they afraid owners will put tap water (which is mineral water) into the system instead of distilled water, thus making customers angry when their expensive engine is destroyed from calcification? Could be. I, like most gearheads, would enjoy filling the tank but I would want a greater assurance it is true distilled water than what Wal-Mart would give in their water section.
Regardless, it seems like a great idea.
Mixing exhaust gas with the air reduces the concentration of O2 and thus less fuel can be burned. Burning less fuel means the combustion temperature will be less. This is my take on it, I do not know for certain. This bit about reducing pumping losses has always seemed trivial to me, or perhaps it is trying to put a good spin on something we gearheads would consider bad.
Water injection, on the other hand seems like a good idea. I believe it sprays a small mist of water into the cylinder which evaporates (or boils) instantly upon combustion, producing steam which creates greater pressure in the combustion chamber. The boiling water absorbs heat keeping the temperature down and reducing NO.
I believe both systems reduce NO, but water injection increases power while EGR robs power.
So why has water injection not been used in production vehicles? Do the manufacturers believe owners do not want to be bothered? Are they afraid owners will put tap water (which is mineral water) into the system instead of distilled water, thus making customers angry when their expensive engine is destroyed from calcification? Could be. I, like most gearheads, would enjoy filling the tank but I would want a greater assurance it is true distilled water than what Wal-Mart would give in their water section.
Regardless, it seems like a great idea.
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Water injection is not really needed in EM/IAV engine because it would be redundant as IAV is using a modern EGR system for the same purposes. As pistonboy correctly stated water injection essentially serves the same purpose as an EGR system however pistonboy does not appear to be aware of just how far EGR systems have come as they are no longer the power robbing problems they once were. EM/IAV have already done an excellent job of explaining why they are using a modern EGR system in Tech Talk V39:
The use of this modern ECU controlled cooled EGR system along with taking advantage of modern computer modeling power to precisely model and plan the air/fuel swirling movement inside the combustion chamber all contributes to the combustion mixture remaining mixed and cooled which results in controlled high compression burn without pre-ignition or detonation. This also results in more complete combustion which reduces harmful emissions. This is how IAV can plan on safely achieving compression ratios of 12:1 on regular unleaded gasoline.
The use of this modern ECU controlled cooled EGR system along with taking advantage of modern computer modeling power to precisely model and plan the air/fuel swirling movement inside the combustion chamber all contributes to the combustion mixture remaining mixed and cooled which results in controlled high compression burn without pre-ignition or detonation. This also results in more complete combustion which reduces harmful emissions. This is how IAV can plan on safely achieving compression ratios of 12:1 on regular unleaded gasoline.
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