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What Is Elio Stock Trading For Today?

Discussion in 'Elio Stock Discussion' started by Ekh, Feb 20, 2016.

  1. Elio Amazed

    Elio Amazed Elio Addict

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    The conversion rate on the 6.5% was when EM was playing a relatively happy tune.
    And, keep in mind that is 65k reservations, it doesn't guarantee 65k sales.
    And I thought I was pretty generous with the figures I gave. Wow.

    The double-priced gas card is one of those things that looks great on paper.
    But it depends on already financially strapped individuals...
    To stay honest and not revert to paying cash.

    It also requires individuals to rack up considerable miles to keep the payments up.
    Finally, it puts more administrative costs on someone somewhere.
    There will be phone calls and repossessed Elios.

    Hey, I'm far beyond ready. Show me, don't tell me.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2018
    Rickb likes this.
  2. Made in USA

    Made in USA Elio Addict

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    If I recall, Elio said that there would be a minimum charge each month on the gas charge based on your configuration. Pulling numbers out of a hat, but if you were expected to buy $20 worth of gas a month and your minimum payment was $30, then an additional $10 would be charged to the card. If you paid cash for the gas, then you would still be charged the $30 minimum in this example.
     
    Bert likes this.
  3. RSchneider

    RSchneider Elio Addict

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    In typical Elio forward looking thinking, there is little info at all when it comes to this credit card thing. So you have to look at it, as if you had to go get a car loan and the credit card would have to correspond to that somehow. For example, if someone buys an Elio for $9K (an automatic with some options). Pays $1K in cash for a down payment, they finance $8K.

    Right now if you financed $8K for 60 months at a typical 4% interest rate, that would be $147/mo. If you financed $7K for the same terms, that's $129/mo. So, let's look at the numbers for what the Eliocard would have to be to make sense. An Elio gives a mixed 65 mpg and Elio charges you 3X the price of gas. That means you get charged $7.80/gal today (using the national average). For the bank to see $129/mo that means the bank only sees $5.20/gal because the remaining $2.60/gal goes to the oil company. You have to purchase 24.8 gal/mo or make up the difference to meet a typical car loan. You would have to drive the Elio 1,612 mi/mo or 19,344 mi/yr

    Using the Elio example of buying only $20/mo for gas that means you'd get charged $60/mo which the bank only sees $40 of that. Plus, if you did the 65 mpg and gas is $2.60/gal, you only buy 7.7 gal/mo and drive 500 mi/mo or 6000 mi/yr. If you financed $7K for an Elio, then with a 4% interest rate, it would take you 260 months or 21.6 years to pay it off. Even at $5K financed, you got 160 months or 13.3 years. Both with $40/month going to the bank.

    There has to be a minimum charge per month and the bank will have to see at least $130/mo to make it work . I can't imagine financing a $7K car loan over 21 years or a $5K car loan for 13 years would fly with any bank. So, in the end, you either pay the credit card company or you pay a bank (in reality both are the same). Again, the Eliocard sounds great until you crank out real world numbers and Elio gets out of any responsibility by this phrase “We are still working out the details”.
     
    Samalross likes this.
  4. Rickb

    Rickb Elio Addict

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    ........or if you happened to set aside $50 per month over the past 9 years of Elio Marketing’s Say Hello to Elio marketing campaign, you could pay cash for your Elio or say goodbye to Elio and use it as a down payment on some other 3 or 4 wheeler vehicle as I’m forced to do.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2018
  5. RSchneider

    RSchneider Elio Addict

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    I just figured I'd come up with a fictitious Elio purchase using their targeted numbers, typical automotive charges, national averages and a person who has great credit.

    Elio Purchase for the average person without a reservation:
    Base Price - $7450
    Destination Charge - $700
    Subtotal – $8,150
    Tax (6%) - $490
    Paperwork Fee - $200
    Total - $8,840
    Down Payment - $2000
    Total financed - $6840

    Typical car loan:
    Interest 3%
    Payment number – 60 (48)
    Monthly payment - $123 ($151)


    Eliocard (using Elio blog numbers for amount bought and up to mpg):
    Interest - 3%
    Gas - $2.60/gal
    Mileage – 84mpg
    Buy $20/mo
    Fuel – 7.7gal/mo
    Charged - $60/mo
    Bank gets - $40/mo
    Total months – 220
    Years – 18.3
    Miles per year – 7,760
    Miles when car is paid off – 142,000
    Car bought in 2020 will be paid off in 2038

    To be like a car loan (3% for 60 months):
    Bank needs - $123/mo
    Gas bought - $61/month
    Total charge to customer - $183/month
    Gallons bought – 23.4/mo
    Mileage – 84mpg
    Total miles – 1965 mi/mo (23,587 mi/yr)
    Car mileage to paid off – 117,936

    “the money you are currently spending on gasoline is paying for a brand spanking new vehicle!” Elio is wrong. The money you will be spending for gas to run your Elio will be doing that, nothing more. The extra surcharge is what is paying for the vehicle and there will have to be an extra charge on top of that to get a minimum monthly payment to the bank. Even though 18 years to pay off a car that has a targeted MSRP of $7450 sounds great, it's not realistic. I would think that even 60 months is a bit of a stretch.
     
  6. Made in USA

    Made in USA Elio Addict

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    Of course the above numbers work, but if gas goes up or down significantly then the time and payments are also effected. Gas prices in the future are anybody's guess. However, based on the above, which are probably a good example, the gas card really won't be much benefit and unless gas prices double, the real savings might be on insurance and maintenance.
     
  7. Elio Amazed

    Elio Amazed Elio Addict

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    Right. Yep, already factored that in.
    I know you said you were pulling numbers out of a hat...
    I also think 60 months financing on a ~$7500 vehicle is fantasy.
    Especially anticipating a lot of program users would likely be high-risk.
    I think a lot of people this is designed for would eventually "cheat" and forfeit.

    Because they can. It's human nature.

    And again, financing programs like these don't run for free.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2018
  8. Ty

    Ty Elio Addict

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    If it is set up like a credit card, they'd just be charged the minimum fee (let's call it $100) if they didn't purchase the required $50 a month in gas. If they pay off the credit card each month, there would be no interest. That's part of the card's deal. However, nobody mentioned what the default APR is. Perhaps it's 20% and the card company is just hoping that one in 4 people continually doesn't pay the thing off each month which would give them an Average of 5% on the loans... plus the 3% they get from all fuel transactions that the gas station would have to pay.

    Simple, yes?
     
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  9. Elio Amazed

    Elio Amazed Elio Addict

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    Like I said, I factored all that in. I understand the theory and the process.
    It's all fun and games on paper until you throw in the human element.

    People will cheat (themselves in reality) because they can.
    And when the big (for many of them) bill comes at the end of the month...
    They'll be scrambling and acting surprised.

    "Oops, I forgot it was that close to the end of the month!
    OMG, whatever shall we do now?"

    Granted, for some individuals, it will be a great opportunity that they otherwise may not have had.
    For others, it could very well set them up for additional financial strain.

    Let's not forget that the Elio is not a family car. It's a commuter vehicle. It's an "and" vehicle.
    You can't haul 3 kids and a dog around in an Elio. Many times budgets are tight in full households.
    Some families can't afford two vehicles. Many can't afford a new vehicle no matter what it costs.
    I own two '03 Dodge Caravans with bodies in immaculate shape. I paid $1700 and $1600.
    Not great gas mileage, but they'd haul a family. Some simply can't play the long game.

    I think it's worth trying if done well. It's not like it'll be a bad thing for the vast majority of participants.
    I'm simply pointing out that it's not necessarily the magic bullet that will make the conversion rate soar.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2018
  10. RSchneider

    RSchneider Elio Addict

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    I don't think it's that simple. Someone would have to carry that $6840 amount for a while and I can't imagine any bank would let you pay off that amount over a period of time with 0% interest. If I charge my Visa $6840 today, if I pay it off in a month I get 0% interest. If I take time and use the minimum payment option, then I get charged X% APR on the balance left each month. That is what I can see is simple but no different than a regular car or motorcycle loan. Then, we have no idea what the APR will be as compared to a regular car loan and what the terms are (Elio doesn't know either). Does Elio want customers to be late on one payment and get nailed with 20% interest so they can make up the difference? That can open up a can of worms because that Elio just seen around a $60/month increase and a price hike of $3500. I'm all for people paying on time but not for predatory lending. The Elio is to break the poverty cycle, not keep it going. I hope Elio will not go down this path.
     

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