Why Buy Elio (don't Worry, I'm All In)

[JEBar]

Just to make a counter point to some of what's already been said.....

Some of us live in areas where motorcycles *are* 4-season transportation. I paid $2k for a like-new bike with 2k miles on it. Thus, I can buy $4800 worth of gas. At $3/gal that's 1600 gallons. I average 62 mpg. Thus, I can ride 99,200 miles before I spend $6800.

Elio ain't beating that.

that being the case for you .... I hope you will find whatever form or transportation suits your wants and needs

 

[johnsnownw]

Different markets -- the Elio doesn't compete in the 2-kids-and-a-dog market, only in the market for people who drive substantial distances alone every day -- or who can afford an extra car. I'm in that bracket -- keep the Forester for hauling the lawnmower or other heavy crap, and for getting up our snowed-in ski slope of a driveway -- but 95% of the time the Elio is perfect -- room for me, adequate baggage and camera gear, and that's all I need. Wife keeps her hybrid camry which we use for lengthy trips as a couple.

I've done the math on this more than once -- even with gas at giveaway prices, it's still cheaper to buy, insure, and operate an Elio than to drive my Subaru (which is paid for). I might even decommission the Subaru and save enough to rent a new one when blizzards threaten.

I agree, but I do think they are cross-shopped by those wanting to lower their carbon footprint. Both would accomplish that, but if it's true that the Elio is more geared towards those that would drive more than 50 miles one-way, most BEVs (even used) wouldn't be a practical alternative...either from a use case, or economic. Well, unless the workplace has free BEV charging, but I don't think there are many that offer it outside of CA.

 

[Coss]

Just to make a counter point to some of what's already been said.....

Some of us live in areas where motorcycles *are* 4-season transportation. I paid $2k for a like-new bike with 2k miles on it. Thus, I can buy $4800 worth of gas. At $3/gal that's 1600 gallons. I average 62 mpg. Thus, I can ride 99,200 miles before I spend $6800.

Elio ain't beating that.

You're in Moline IL; I don't really think a bike is a great 4-season transportation when it's snowing or below 0 there.

Yes, there are people on here that live in climates where you can ride a bike year round; but there are far more areas that aren't.

 

[DeltaMike]

Exactly. Plus, the tax should include some function including weight of vehicle. Though it pains me to say this, my 9,000 lbs truck is probably harder on the road than my daughter's prius. So, 10,000 miles on the road in my truck would do more damage than the same miles in her prius. I'm thinking something along these lines:
1. Vehicles would have to have mileage checks done to be registered.
2. Each year, the mileage would have to be verified prior to registering again.
3. Tax paid would be in the form of a straight $.10 per gallon which is less than the current $.189 per gallon we all pay in federal gas tax. Plus, there would be a tax based on weight of vehicles and number of miles driven. It would look something like this:
[(# miles driven/1,000) X (weight / 6000)] X (tax rate factor)
### I'll use 6 as the tax factor and 6,000 lbs as the weight factor. A 6,000 lb car would have a weight factor of 1.0 ###

Federal gas tax is 18.4¢ per gallon right now. Drop that to 10.0¢ per gallon.

For this example, assume you currently drive 10,000 miles a year.

Under current rules:

Case A: 10,000 lb truck that gets 15 mpg. Tax burden is $122.67
Case B: 2,765 lb prius that gets 40 mpg. Tax burden is $47.25
Case C: 4,647 lbTesla that uses no gas. Tax burden is $0.
Total tax collected is $169.92

The tesla uses the road but does not pay for the upkeep which makes it unfair to all other tax payers.

The new system:
Case A: 10,000 lb truck that gets 15 mpg. Tax burden is $66.67+$100=$166.67. (Tax burden is tax per gallon + weight-miles tax)
Case B: 2,765 lb prius that gets 40 mpg. Tax burden is $25+$27.65=$52.64
Case C: 4,647 lb Tesla that uses no gas. Tax burden is $0+46.47=$46.47
Total tax collected = $265.78

This would be an incentive to buy lighter, less damaging, higher mileage vehicles while those car owners would still contribute to road maintenance.

Case D: 1,300 lb Elio at 84 mpg: Tax burden is $11.90+$12.99=$24.89

From my limited work with a pavements engineer, I believe it is actually axle loading that relates to pavement degradation. Equivalent Single Axle Loading or ESALs. And I believe the effect with increasing ESAL is non-linear. At the higher weights, a small increase in ESAL has a disproportionately larger effect on pavement life. A somewhat heavier dual-tandem RV may generate lower ESALs than a lighter single (rear) axle, for example.

 

[DeltaMike]

An option is something that is a choice.
When I am supporting your option under penalty of law (tax) that is not an option to me.
When gas tax is being used to subsidize mass transit in the "Northeastern Corridor" that is not a benefit to people living in "fly over country" yet their money provides a subsidy to that mass transit.
And speaking of subsidy, why is highway gas tax being used to upgrade airports? Or subways?
Seems like us folks in "fly over country" are expected to subsidize a lot of things that have nothing to do with us.

Hmmm...an example, please. There is an aviation trust fund like the highways trust fund. Airline ticket tax and airbill taxes and general aviation fuel taxes fund the aviation trust.

 

[CrimsonEclipse]

From my limited work with a pavements engineer, I believe it is actually axle loading that relates to pavement degradation. Equivalent Single Axle Loading or ESALs. And I believe the effect with increasing ESAL is non-linear. At the higher weights, a small increase in ESAL has a disproportionately larger effect on pavement life. A somewhat heavier dual-tandem RV may generate lower ESALs than a lighter single (rear) axle, for example.

Damage is on a logarithmic scale. Hmmmm. I'll bet you can make a fair tax based on a simple formula.
I kinda figured as much, although I didn't know how to express it.

 

[bunchathrees]

Great. Tax me based on ESAL. All of that time mastering my unicycle and you hit me with this.

 

[Ty]

Most consumer vehicles are single rear axle so it is a non-issue. It wouldn't be difficult to adjust for RVs and commercial vehicles.

 

[DeltaMike]

Before I stumbled across the Elio a couple years ago, I looked at many alternates to gasoline: Propane, CNG, hybrids, plugin battery, hydrogen, fuel cell, etc. The battery suffered from range limits vs price as well noted here. CNG would be good if I could fill up easily but that is an infrastructure problem locally (rural Oregon) and cross-country. Gas, propane or diesel fuel cell + battery electric is perfect...but not yet an option. I keep watching the development of OTR diesel fuel cell APUs for big rigs. Delphi had done some good work; now Germany is. I love the idea that my fuel cell car could be my home (limited) emergency generator, the grid could recharge my car batteries most times, and the fuel cell could give very long range for a cross country in the car.

 

[Ekh]

I agree, but I do think they are cross-shopped by those wanting to lower their carbon footprint. Both would accomplish that, but if it's true that the Elio is more geared towards those that would drive more than 50 miles one-way, most BEVs (even used) wouldn't be a practical alternative...either from a use case, or economic. Well, unless the workplace has free BEV charging, but I don't think there are many that offer it outside of CA.

Green is essential. Electric (or hydrogen fuel) is the only way to get absolutely carbon-emissions free cars. Of course, individually owned and operated cars will be gone in 50 years... not that I'll be around to see that.