New Engine Unveiling And Testing

[Rickb]

Elio has said they had $1,000 profit built into each car. That's 14.7% profit at $6,800 and actually not that bad. IF the Federal government allows the Elio to qualify for emission credits, Elio could earn 250,000 credits per year if they produce 250,000 cars. Elio is required to pay 1% of those to the government... 250,000 - 2,500 = 247,500 credits left. They can sell those for up to $5,000 per credit... Suddenly, that $6,800 Elio has earned $6,000 in profit... IF they can sell emissions credits... Okay, the Math isn't quite right but Tesla makes up to $10,000 in credits for each vehicle they sell.


“The Zero Emission Vehicle regulation is a requirement that’s placed on the large auto makers to make and sell zero emission vehicles,” said Ana Lisa Bevan, with the California Air Resources Board. The board requires auto makers to turn in a certain number of credits per year.
Companies earn those credits by making and selling zero emission vehicles.
“So if a manufacturer has sales in California of, let’s say, 100,000 vehicles, and the obligation is credits equal to one percent of their sales, they have to come up with 1,000 credits,” Bevan said.
If a company comes up short, it has to pay a penalty of up to $5,000 per credit. Or it can buy credits from a company like Tesla, which happens to earn a lot of credits on every car it makes. Tesla has sold enough credits to post its first profit.


http://www.marketplace.org/topics/sustainability/teslas-secret-success-selling-emissions-credits

Here is Paul Elio's Math regarding CAFE Credits and his plan to qualify the Elio by the end of 2014, copied from the May 2014 Caddo Parrish Commission Meeting Minutes. I had know idea EM was working to change the Elio's vehicle classification to a car and didn't think that was even possible with a motorcycle vin number although perhaps that changes with the car reclassification.

 

[RUCRAYZE]

Or

Looks like a Catrike? made here in THE Sunshine State, had two of them-

 

[DWR]

One of the funny things is - well - how not so advanced the Tesla Lithium battery itself really is. A lot of people clammering they have some sort of secret lithium sauce. LOL not so much - the the p85 (or p60 I forget) has 1,750 - series 1850 lithium batteries into the floor frame. The same ones in many of your devices (like my E-cig vape device).and its just a bit larger than a AA Alkaline battery. The secret is in the "Management" of the charging and discharging of those batts and the system that liquid cools or heats them. Thats the magic really its not they have some magic lithium battery composition its innovation in the management of those batteries.

This information btw wasn't on the Tesla site - it slipped out on a Jay Leno test drive of the Tesla on youtube with one of the engineers.

Off topic, I know Nate (and the rest of the forum), But I have to like posts from a fellow vaper. What is your favorite juice? For me, it's Vista Vapors Razzleberry at 30% flavor boost for a budget juice, and Johnson Creek, Red Oak Tennessee Cured for a premium juice. Maybe we should start an E-Cig thread in general discusions? I used tobacco for close to thirty years till I came across E-Cigs. No tobacco in 2 years now. Memebers like you and me could maybe help other members along on thier way to quiting.

 

[Ty]

The trick to any EV is in the controller and luckily there are very good off the shelf options available for this which can be programmed simply with a laptop. The controller manages the battery charging and discharging as well as how power is sent from the batteries to the hub when you accelerate. Thanks to many newer cars, and the Elio, being drive-by-wire you can generally tap into the existing accelerator peddle position sensor and redirect this signal into the EV controller. By wiring in a simple selector switch to this sensor you can also direct the signal to the gas engine, electric motor, or both thus running whatever combination you wish.

You can easily buy EV batteries of various sizes off the shelf or assemble one from quality cells yourself however to wire this into the 12V system would require a transformer as EV electric motors run at higher voltages. Some EV controllers may have this capability however the easiest way to do this may be to simply kick the heavy 12V battery to curve, use lithium cells as a compact and light 12v accessory battery, and use the electric motor to push start the gas engine.

I can understand where you are coming from, and you can of course design your vehicle any way you wish, however I believe you will be surprised when you research hub motors a bit more as they are heavier than most people think they are. 25 HP is about 18.6 KW. There are 10 KW continuous hub motors for electric motorcycles out on the market which can do 20+ KW in a burst so this is likely the type which would be useful to have for a hub or off hub installation. However the problem is that even these relatively small motors in hub form weigh in at about 22 kg or about 48 lbs. 48 lbs is likely about as much, if not more than, the entire unsprung weight currently on the Elio rear end including the swingarm. Replacing the OEM hub and brakes with a EV motorcyle hub would cut out some weight redundancy however you would be looking at only a few pounds of savings and this would also cause you to lose the electronic driving aids in the car as the ABS/TCS/ESC system is designed for and dependent on the rear brakes. So even a relatively small hub motor would add 40+ lbs of unsprung weight which would have a huge affect on such a light vehicle as well as disabling the electronic driving aid functionality.

Running a chain drive to a swingarm mounted wheel and maintaining proper tension is actually easy to do and can be done inexpensively with off the shelf parts from motorcycles as this is exactly how most motorcycles operate. A 10 KW continuous motor which can burst to 20+ KW and can be chassis mounted weighs in at about 17 KG however with the added gear for the chain drive it would actually weight about the same as the hub motor however only a small amount of this weight would be unsprung. This means the vehicle should handle about the same and keep all its electronic driving aids intact.

Fine... Fine... You beat me down. You win... lol
Chain drive is probably doable but not as easy as the plug and play of the hub motor. Realistically, you'd be hard pressed to break even with either setup... 8,400 miles is only $250 - $300 in fuel... if you cut your fuel expense in half, you'd only save $125 - $150 per 8,400 miles... But, I would be fun.

 

[goofyone]

Fine... Fine... You beat me down. You win... lol
Chain drive is probably doable but not as easy as the plug and play of the hub motor. Realistically, you'd be hard pressed to break even with either setup... 8,400 miles is only $250 - $300 in fuel... if you cut your fuel expense in half, you'd only save $125 - $150 per 8,400 miles... But, I would be fun.

This is definitely the type of project you take on as a fun challenge as with such a fuel efficient vehicle there is no way to actually save money this way. Anything you choose to do will be a lot of fun. Just make sure you fun doesn't kill you!

I just happen to be an electrical engineer and a gearhead who has had a lot of extra time on his hands over the last year so I have had plenty of time to dream through various scenarios of what I would do with my Elio(s). At this point my wish list has definitively grown much larger than my wallet!

 

[Nate_tx]

Off topic, I know Nate (and the rest of the forum), But I have to like posts from a fellow vaper. What is your favorite juice? For me, it's Vista Vapors Razzleberry at 30% flavor boost for a budget juice, and Johnson Creek, Red Oak Tennessee Cured for a premium juice. Maybe we should start an E-Cig thread in general discusions? I used tobacco for close to thirty years till I came across E-Cigs. No tobacco in 2 years now. Memebers like you and me could maybe help other members along on thier way to quiting.

I started vaping to stop dipping. And since dipping isnt the sexiest thing to due hitting the club scene I was a social smoker. A trip to the dentist and some Pre-cancerous white lesions in my mouth scared me out of it. I ask the dentist for suggestions - of course he said prescription meds, patches and then said a lot of his clients had success with E-Cigs. Struck me odd but he explained they do not stain your teeth (vapor is not able to permeate enamel) and no carcinogens (chewing or burning tobacco has carcinogens - nicotine does not and is on par with caffiene).

About 1 month in I broke away from crap gas station oils and found 2 places - Violet Vapor and Vapor Sensations. Both places make their own oils in house with no unneeded chems. Cause I dipped had to start off at 24g nicotine - I worked my way down to 8 - and occasionally I get a bottle of 4g. Favorite flavors are Paradise , Strawberry Fields (high vg) Mint vanilla and a real odd one Cucumber Ice (yes like the vegetable). Occasionally I will get like a heavy desert flavor Peanut butter Cream or something like that. I use several diffrent units such as a Chi with a drip or Atlantis topper. My go to everyday unit is a Itaste 2.0 SVD with Nautilus topper. Maybe we should start a vape thread LOL

 

[WilliamH]

I started vaping to stop dipping. And since dipping isnt the sexiest thing to due hitting the club scene I was a social smoker. A trip to the dentist and some Pre-cancerous white lesions in my mouth scared me out of it. I ask the dentist for suggestions - of course he said prescription meds, patches and then said a lot of his clients had success with E-Cigs. Struck me odd but he explained they do not stain your teeth (vapor is not able to permeate enamel) and no carcinogens (chewing or burning tobacco has carcinogens - nicotine does not and is on par with caffiene).

About 1 month in I broke away from crap gas station oils and found 2 places - Violet Vapor and Vapor Sensations. Both places make their own oils in house with no unneeded chems. Cause I dipped had to start off at 24g nicotine - I worked my way down to 8 - and occasionally I get a bottle of 4g. Favorite flavors are Paradise , Strawberry Fields (high vg) Mint vanilla and a real odd one Cucumber Ice (yes like the vegetable). Occasionally I will get like a heavy desert flavor Peanut butter Cream or something like that. I use several diffrent units such as a Chi with a drip or Atlantis topper. My go to everyday unit is a Itaste 2.0 SVD with Nautilus topper. Maybe we should start a vape thread LOL

Used to smoke 3 packs a day. Went cold turkey 15 years ago.

 

[JEBar]

Used to smoke 3 packs a day. Went cold turkey 15 years ago.

now days smoking is a rich folks habit

 

[eddie66]

I started vaping to stop dipping. And since dipping isnt the sexiest thing to due hitting the club scene I was a social smoker. A trip to the dentist and some Pre-cancerous white lesions in my mouth scared me out of it. I ask the dentist for suggestions - of course he said prescription meds, patches and then said a lot of his clients had success with E-Cigs. Struck me odd but he explained they do not stain your teeth (vapor is not able to permeate enamel) and no carcinogens (chewing or burning tobacco has carcinogens - nicotine does not and is on par with caffiene).

About 1 month in I broke away from crap gas station oils and found 2 places - Violet Vapor and Vapor Sensations. Both places make their own oils in house with no unneeded chems. Cause I dipped had to start off at 24g nicotine - I worked my way down to 8 - and occasionally I get a bottle of 4g. Favorite flavors are Paradise , Strawberry Fields (high vg) Mint vanilla and a real odd one Cucumber Ice (yes like the vegetable). Occasionally I will get like a heavy desert flavor Peanut butter Cream or something like that. I use several diffrent units such as a Chi with a drip or Atlantis topper. My go to everyday unit is a Itaste 2.0 SVD with Nautilus topper. Maybe we should start a vape thread LOL

Nate,
I can definitely relate having smoked for forty some years. I found the gum was too hard to keep lit, and the patches worked well if you put them over your lips, but having a deviated septum, they made it hard to breath. Tried hypnosis, but lit up as soon as I came out of the session. Finally got tired of being treated like a lepar, and did the cold turkey thing. Still miss it but they didn't have the e-cigarett back then. My best guess is if I had one back then I probably would have gone back to smoking. Just my opinion.

 

[DWR]

I started vaping to stop dipping. And since dipping isnt the sexiest thing to due hitting the club scene I was a social smoker. A trip to the dentist and some Pre-cancerous white lesions in my mouth scared me out of it. I ask the dentist for suggestions - of course he said prescription meds, patches and then said a lot of his clients had success with E-Cigs. Struck me odd but he explained they do not stain your teeth (vapor is not able to permeate enamel) and no carcinogens (chewing or burning tobacco has carcinogens - nicotine does not and is on par with caffiene).

About 1 month in I broke away from crap gas station oils and found 2 places - Violet Vapor and Vapor Sensations. Both places make their own oils in house with no unneeded chems. Cause I dipped had to start off at 24g nicotine - I worked my way down to 8 - and occasionally I get a bottle of 4g. Favorite flavors are Paradise , Strawberry Fields (high vg) Mint vanilla and a real odd one Cucumber Ice (yes like the vegetable). Occasionally I will get like a heavy desert flavor Peanut butter Cream or something like that. I use several diffrent units such as a Chi with a drip or Atlantis topper. My go to everyday unit is a Itaste 2.0 SVD with Nautilus topper. Maybe we should start a vape thread LOL

I dipped too (hey, I live in TN). Started at a 1.8 and now am at a .9 to 1.2 depending on who's juice I'm using. Not into hardware so much. I just want something that works for me. Batteries are Aspire CF VV 1600mAh, and tanks are Aspire K1 and BDC. This is a great starter system that can carry you through to the end. Enough of this in this thread. Sorry Mods and Members. We'll take this somewhere else.