Elio Tv Commercial - 60 Second Tv Spots (link)

[Rob Croson]

Serious investors may see this as an issue too and won't provide venture capital for additional prototyping and testing that is currently funded. They are waiting on EM. When there is a peformance tested, fully certified Elio that has some verifiable daily driving miles on the Elgin Odometer, I think venture capitalists will open their wallets to provide the production funding needed, but no additional development funding public or private.

I do agree that this is a valid point. Some actual, concrete results of real testing would go a long toward establishing some confidence. Even if it's "Our current prototype tests demonstrate 80 mpg, but we are still optimizing, and are confident we will get 84 mpg", that's a lot better than "our current computer prediction shows we should be able to get 80 mpg".

I'm wondering if they will really test the P5, or if they will wait until they get the Es running to do it.

 

[Elio Amazed]

What I don't understand is why they are still retrofitting and tinkering around with the P5.

OCD?

 

[3wheelin]

I do agree that this is a valid point. Some actual, concrete results of real testing would go a long toward establishing some confidence. Even if it's "Our current prototype tests demonstrate 80 mpg, but we are still optimizing, and are confident we will get 84 mpg", that's a lot better than "our current computer prediction shows we should be able to get 80 mpg".

I'm wondering if they will really test the P5, or if they will wait until they get the Es running to do it.

I would think showing EM's official video of the P5 taking a spin on public highways and streets is a good start. We at least know it's running on it's own power. Taking it a step further and actually testing all parameters including validating the mpg performance and speed in a controlled private oval track should at least give them "new news" than the regular blog we are getting at the moment. It's either they're way off from their goals that it's not worth sharing at the moment or they're saving the results for a big reveal after the safety testings of the E-series has been completed. It's always EM's call and we're all just spectators in our ELIO's evolution! 11 months doesn't seem to long and the ultimate reward is worth the wait!

 

[Rickb]

I do agree that this is a valid point. Some actual, concrete results of real testing would go a long toward establishing some confidence. Even if it's "Our current prototype tests demonstrate 80 mpg, but we are still optimizing, and are confident we will get 84 mpg", that's a lot better than "our current computer prediction shows we should be able to get 80 mpg".

I'm wondering if they will really test the P5, or if they will wait until they get the Es running to do it.

I guess they wait. I'm stuck on the fact that there has to be a design and engineering freeze on the prototype (P5) from which specifications are taken to build the E's for testing. The E builds have to be built to specification or testing is meaningless. The builders/fabricators can't make up fit and finish specs as they build.

For me testing goes well beyond mpg. Overall handling, performance, ride, and comfort level is as or more important than mpg........providing that mpg hits that minimum 75 mpg mark. Last on my list of testing would be the actual crash testing, although very important. The computer simulations are no doubt close from an engineering perspective, actual crash testing is needed for verification. Letting potential investors, media reps. and potential customers get behind the wheel for a test drive would be priceless advertising.

I would like to see a handful of E's put out there to be driven, tested, and reviewed by the average guy (me) in a simple everyday commuter application. Also, the ride and drive events that were mentioned back in early 2015. EM recently stated that ride and drive events will be scheduled AFTER production begins. Ride and drives should be available prior to submitting our official order form.

 

[pistonboy]

. "And way beyond our relatively small concerns would seem to be the substantial interests of his few big investors"
Not my call, but the big investors seem to be keeping their checkbooks at home. I'd of thought a few would provide the $ to make it happen at this time, with all the recent announcements.
There's always tomorrow's Blog,I'm hoping not to hear about the floods in California, etc.

The Elio tour team has said there have been investors with the necessary money ready to invest, but the problem is that they want too much control.

My read on this is that Paul Elio wants all the control and is not willing to share any control with anyone, including investors with the big money needed to speed up development and put it into production quickly. Sharing control with major investors is the norm and expected by any big investor.

If this is the case, (and information points to this), then no amount of progress will draw in investors. It is not about progress and results, it is about sharing the amount of control normally given to major investors.

He may completely develop and test the vehicle and then bring in big investors sharing control at that point. Because, at that point, investors are less likely to change a fully developed product.

Perhaps Paul Elio has a list of investors to talk to at this point. Perhaps Stu Lichter or someone else has agreed to fund the project if the ATVM loan does not come through and that is why Paul Elio says it is "when" funding comes through, not "if" funding comes through. This would have to be a silent agreement. If the ATVM loan is to fund projects that would not normally be funded, then knowledge of any such agreement would disqualify EM from receiving the ATVM loan.

All this sounds complicated. like politics.

 

[RUCRAYZE]

The Elio tour team has said there have been investors with the necessary money ready to invest, but the problem is that they want too much control.

My read on this is that Paul Elio wants all the control and is not willing to share any control with anyone, including investors with the big money needed to speed up development and put it into production quickly. Sharing control with major investors is the norm and expected by any big investor.

If this is the case, (and information points to this), then no amount of progress will draw in investors. It is not about progress and results, it is about sharing the amount of control normally given to major investors.

He may completely develop and test the vehicle and then bring in big investors sharing control at that point. Because, at that point, investors are less likely to change a fully developed product.

Perhaps Paul Elio has a list of investors to talk to at this point. Perhaps Stu Lichter or someone else has agreed to fund the project if the ATVM loan does not come through and that is why Paul Elio says it is "when" funding comes through, not "if" funding comes through. This would have to be a silent agreement. If the ATVM loan is to fund projects that would not normally be funded, then knowledge of any such agreement would disqualify EM from receiving the ATVM loan.

All this sounds complicated. like politics.

thanks for your view, I (we?) tend to think linear which reinforces tunnel vision.
EVERYTHING is politics!! I'm growing more impatient and seeing his project less likely to come to fruitition. It would be sad if Elio's ego (like the alliteration?) to be king would be the downfall of a great concept.

 

[RUCRAYZE]

well, I'm pooped from all of todays correspondence, turning in really early, I'm looking forward to the weekend with temps expected to be up in the '50s!!! hasn't happened for many weeks, and this Florida boy looks forward to some "warmth"
VIII:XXXII

 

[pistonboy]

The Elio tour team has said there have been investors with the necessary money ready to invest, but the problem is that they want too much control.

My read on this is that Paul Elio wants all the control and is not willing to share any control with anyone, including investors with the big money needed to speed up development and put it into production quickly. Sharing control with major investors is the norm and expected by any big investor.

If this is the case, (and information points to this), then no amount of progress will draw in investors. It is not about progress and results, it is about sharing the amount of control normally given to major investors.

He may completely develop and test the vehicle and then bring in big investors sharing control at that point. Because, at that point, investors are less likely to change a fully developed product.

Perhaps Paul Elio has a list of investors to talk to at this point. Perhaps Stu Lichter or someone else has agreed to fund the project if the ATVM loan does not come through and that is why Paul Elio says it is "when" funding comes through, not "if" funding comes through. This would have to be a silent agreement. If the ATVM loan is to fund projects that would not normally be funded, then knowledge of any such agreement would disqualify EM from receiving the ATVM loan.

All this sounds complicated. like politics.

When men are young they have much freedom to do as they please. Then when they become married and have children, they feel an obligation to others and no longer have the freedom to do as they please.

The same is true with Paul Elio but in a different way. Once he starts taking money from others (reservationist and investors) he no longer has the freedom to do as he pleases, because he has an obligation to others. I believe he not longer has the freedom to do as he pleases by waiting until the perfect "no strings attached" investor comes along. He needs to be willing to share control in order to get the big investors so this project can come to production.

 

[WilliamH]

I guess they wait. I'm stuck on the fact that there has to be a design and engineering freeze on the prototype (P5) from which specifications are taken to build the E's for testing. The E builds have to be built to specification or testing is meaningless. The builders/fabricators can't make up fit and finish specs as they build.

For me testing goes well beyond mpg. Overall handling, performance, ride, and comfort level is as or more important than mpg........providing that mpg hits that minimum 75 mpg mark. Last on my list of testing would be the actual crash testing, although very important. The computer simulations are no doubt close from an engineering perspective, actual crash testing is needed for verification. Letting potential investors, media reps. and potential customers get behind the wheel for a test drive would be priceless advertising.

I would like to see a handful of E's put out there to be driven, tested, and reviewed by the average guy (me) in a simple everyday commuter application. Also, the ride and drive events that were mentioned back in early 2015. EM recently stated that ride and drive events will be scheduled AFTER production begins. Ride and drives should be available prior to submitting our official order form.

Just a reminder..........
This was their published test list for the E series.
---------------
1) Underhood thermal & HV AC testing – 4 vehicles
2) Electrical – 12 vehicles
3) General inspection – all vehicles
4) Serviceability – 1 vehicle
5) Powertrain (to include altitude testing, emission certification, engine/transmission development & calibration, economy and software development & verification) – 9 vehicles
6) Interior – 4 vehicles
7) Noise, vibration & harness – 4 vehicles
8) Steering – 1 vehicle
9) Ride & handling (to include vehicle turning, objective measurements, NHTSA Fish Hook, tire wear and electronic stability) – 6 vehicles
10) Performance (to include engine/transmission shift validation, 0-60 mph, hill climb, cold temperature start-up and drivability and maximum speed) – 1 vehicle
11) Fuel systems – 1 vehicle
12) Brakes – 4 vehicles
13) Body systems – 12 vehicles
14) Durability – 7 vehicles
15) Safety tests – 8 vehicles
----------------------
So with that testing in mind, and any thing they find during it, my guess in the only spec freeze would the actual frame work.

 

[pistonboy]

Just a reminder..........
This was their published test list for the E series.
---------------
1) Underhood thermal & HV AC testing – 4 vehicles
2) Electrical – 12 vehicles
3) General inspection – all vehicles
4) Serviceability – 1 vehicle
5) Powertrain (to include altitude testing, emission certification, engine/transmission development & calibration, economy and software development & verification) – 9 vehicles
6) Interior – 4 vehicles
7) Noise, vibration & harness – 4 vehicles
8) Steering – 1 vehicle
9) Ride & handling (to include vehicle turning, objective measurements, NHTSA Fish Hook, tire wear and electronic stability) – 6 vehicles
10) Performance (to include engine/transmission shift validation, 0-60 mph, hill climb, cold temperature start-up and drivability and maximum speed) – 1 vehicle
11) Fuel systems – 1 vehicle
12) Brakes – 4 vehicles
13) Body systems – 12 vehicles
14) Durability – 7 vehicles
15) Safety tests – 8 vehicles
----------------------
So with that testing in mind, and any thing they find during it, my guess in the only spec freeze would the actual frame work.

I am surprised they will use only one vehicle for performance, item 10. I would consider this as a variable that should be averaged over several vehicles.

"10) Performance (to include engine/transmission shift validation, 0-60 mph, hill climb, cold temperature start-up and drivability and maximum speed) – 1 vehicle"