Legal: Motorcycle License And Helmet Laws

[carzes]

I think Paul and by extension EM is totaly up on that, that's why they have made sure it's up to 4 wheel spec. It pretty well tells the competition not to bother lobbing for that, it's covered. Now at this point, since the Elio is ready, such a upscaling of the rules would only make it harder for forien and domestic competition. The bumper system is about all that would require upgrading, and that's not to difficult in this current chassis/frame.

They would likely have to do a few more certs with the DOT, but it's not an unreachable status.

"unreachable status"?? I don't understand, are you FOR reaching 'car' status? That would be a DISASTER!

 

[mdfb42]

"unreachable status"?? I don't understand, are you FOR reaching 'car' status? That would be a DISASTER!

Definitely would be one of the few things to pose another production delay. Would like to believe Elio and his group has all the scenarios worked out and prepared for already. I hope

 

[Doug_L_32548]

Looks like I answered my own question with a quick search online:

http://elioowners.com/index.php?threads/might-not-need-a-motorcycle-license-after-all.15/

In Florida, they created a new class of Vehicle, 3W, called "Tri-vehicle".. Licensing (normal car license) and a lack of a requirement for helmet & safety gear are a good thing, BUT Unfortunately, tax, registration and INSURANCE requirements are same as a car. (but who cares... it's not reall a motorcycle with an extra wheel (read Can-am Spider), but a car with one less.

 

[Buddy Hatfield]

For all who are worried about the 'burden' of having to get a cycle endorsement, I think with a little persuasion the rules will probably be changed in most if not all states, especially when the Elio becomes a fact of the road. The license and helmet laws will probably be changed. The trade-off, however, will likely be that the deffinition of a 'car' will be changed in the process to include the Elio, either by decree or de-facto change in regulation.
In other words, the motorcycle classification that provides so many nice loopholes will be void and this could cause all kinds of unintended consequences, not least of which is that the nice, cheap motorcycle insurance will not apply and we'll be paying for big-bucks car insurance instead. Changing laws will invariably result in ourr being fleeced for more money using any bogus excuse imaginable. I'd rather get a cycle endorsement, (If I didn't have one already), than pay thousands more for insurance any day. I would much rather keep the cycle license requirement 'cause that reinforces that the vehicle is indeed a 'cycle. Then take on the helmet thing as a single issue in which no one has a financial incentive, and it's an easy sell since requiring a helmet inside an enclosed vehicle IS just SILLY.

I don't think what you are saying will Happen, because it is a auto-cycle not a motorcycle. I don't think the powers at be will go through what it would take to change the law.

 

[Buddy Hatfield]

OK, let's take about Ins. and Tag. #1 Ins. will be cheaper because of replacement cost. #2 tag is also cheaper because of price. with that being said with would it cost to register a 7,000 dollar car ??

 

[carzes]

I don't think what you are saying will Happen, because it is a auto-cycle not a motorcycle. I don't think the powers at be will go through what it would take to change the law.

This vehicle falls in a murky grey area of the law that is not even firmly established yet. Might be surprised how easy laws change when it means more money for the state and when insurance lobbys have an interest in the matter. My state can't even be consistent with scooter reqistrations and there are TONS of them. Not a lot of precedent for three-wheeled car-cycle whatcha-ma-call-its so far. And if the state agrees to allowing them to be driven without a cycle endorsement that is ALREADY a change in the law. One more change to classify them as a car is not that big a deal.

 

[carzes]

OK, let's take about Ins. and Tag. #1 Ins. will be cheaper because of replacement cost. #2 tag is also cheaper because of price. with that being said with would it cost to register a 7,000 dollar car ??

Naturally I don't know all states, and I've only owned a motorcycle in 5 of them, but those have been fairly similar. I have my old bike and an old car, both worth essentially NOTHING. Liability insurance for the bike (with the recent increase) is about $300 per year. Liability insurance for the car (with a pristine driving history and age 40-something) is about $100 per month, ($1200 per year). Difference: $900 per year, and the only factor is vehicle classification, nothing to do with cost. Assuming a ten year life span for the vehicle that's $9000. More than the Elio costs! How it's classified DOES matter. I do agree though that registration cost will likely be about the same in most states.

 

[Ty]

Naturally I don't know all states, and I've only owned a motorcycle in 5 of them, but those have been fairly similar. I have my old bike and an old car, both worth essentially NOTHING. Liability insurance for the bike (with the recent increase) is about $300 per year. Liability insurance for the car (with a pristine driving history and age 40-something) is about $100 per month, ($1200 per year). Difference: $900 per year, and the only factor is vehicle classification, nothing to do with cost. Assuming a ten year life span for the vehicle that's $9000. More than the Elio costs! How it's classified DOES matter. I do agree though that registration cost will likely be about the same in most states.

Liability on a car is higher simply because your car can cause more damage than your motorcycle. It is not tied directly to your car's value as much. Elio insurance will cost as much as necessary... no insurance company will lose money insuring them. I don't think anyone will see motorcycle-level rates ever. Also, because of the very inexpensive replacement cost of the Elio, you won't see as expensive insurance as your regular car. It simply should be lot cheaper to replace. My wife did $9,000 damage to her own car and that was limited to the front end (and hood a bit)... The Elio shouldn't even cost that much in total (we sure hope, anyway)

 

[outsydthebox]

This vehicle falls in a murky grey area of the law that is not even firmly established yet. Might be surprised how easy laws change when it means more money for the state and when insurance lobbys have an interest in the matter. My state can't even be consistent with scooter reqistrations and there are TONS of them. Not a lot of precedent for three-wheeled car-cycle whatcha-ma-call-its so far. And if the state agrees to allowing them to be driven without a cycle endorsement that is ALREADY a change in the law. One more change to classify them as a car is not that big a deal.

Hey carzes,
I hope I can clarify some of the murkyness. The autocycle classification is nothing new to this country. They were fairly common in the early part of last century, tho probably a bit less common as late as the 1960's. They can still be bought here today! http://morgan3wheeler.us/ ...If you have enough money!
Here is another great site, with over 2100 pages, if you have a few days to spend: http://www.3wheelers.com/enter.html
All of the other issues...the EM team is much more capable of answering them than we are. Please let us know what they say.

 

[carzes]

A hundred year-old statute that's been used to cover a few one-off's over the years versus real money to be charged on a full mass-production vehicle..... sorry if I'm a pessimist, but my money's on the greedy bastards.
I'm just trying to throw out a warning about giving up too much just to avoid a cycle endorsement. When laws are changed there are always 'unintended' consequences, usually written in by people with an agenda.
When this thing ends up costing just as much as my pickup to insure, it'll be just another example of other people's convenience deciding how MY money gets spent.