Metal...body?

[Ekh]

I don't know how long it will take to have the stamping dies made. They already have the molds for the composite panels. I'm wondering, if EM has to build something this year, to satisfied some contract, they could build them with composite panels. That's all.

There are intermediate stamping dies available that are not built from the same steel as the factory dies and so are a ton less costly. They are somewhat softer, and as I recall, are good for about 50,000 copies before they lose definition and precision and must be replaced.

I'd be willing to bet that Elio has ordered those temporary dies. Since the entire car is done in cad/cam programs, doing take-offs to have the dies made is only a matter of sending the body specs to the die maker, who takes it from there. It's all computer-controlled, and does not, I understand, take terribly long to do. How long, I don't know -- I'm not any kind of expert in tool and die making. But I'm absolutely certain Elio has these under way right now.

EDIT

Whoever is stamping out the frames may be able to do the body panels. People like http://www.pttech.us/stamping/ or these guys: http://www.aminonac.ca (they'e Canadian, but we're talking short-run here). Here's what they can do: Parts Portfolio »

FURTHER EDIT

Here's a Youtube video of how a car door is stamped and assembled. Elio's process will be similar.

 

[slinches]

The term that I have heard for that is "soft tooling". There are a number of techniques that fall into that category. I don't know which ones EM plans on using, but I would hazard a guess that they will likely use soft tools to produce the first 100 (or few hundred) vehicles in three or four batches so that design tweaks can be incorporated. When that's done, they can freeze the design and kick-off the hard tooling for large scale production.

 

[Johnny Acree]

It's all a juggling game. Weight is part of every design choice Elio makes. But how much (forgive me) weight is given to weight will vary with the particular issue at hand.

For instance, in evaluating the radiator, weight might be more of a consideration than it would be in evaluating the rear wheel axle, because in that case strength trumps weight savings though both are important.

I would think that in the case of the body panels weight is very important, but so are strength, durability, and cost. And corrosion resistance, though that is also addressed in painting and galvanizing. Galvanizing does add weight, but it is essential for corrosion resistance. Alas, galvanizing does nothing for strength.

But I wander. The point I'm trying to make is that everything connected to everything else in the Elio, And choice of body panel material is certainly affected by weight.

I found this article interesting. It's about the trade off of weight reduction.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/motorcycles/the-weight-barrier-of-motorcycles/ar-BBvFjEF

 

[electroken]

Engines have been stressed members of motorcycle frames for many years. I know of several late '70s Hondas, and my 2003 Kawasaki ZG1000 is another.

 

[Kuda]

Tried to find the link, no luck. Paul spoke some time ago about the paint & dipping facilities
at the Shreveport plant & that the Elio frame would undergo some form of rust proofing be it
galvanizing or something else. The use of galvanized steel sheet for the outer skin shows a
continued sensitivity to the rust issue...........
http://www.gaa.com.au/index.php?page=10-benefits-of-galvanizing.

 

[Stephen Workman]

There are intermediate stamping dies available that are not built from the same steel as the factory dies and so are a ton less costly. They are somewhat softer, and as I recall, are good for about 50,000 copies before they lose definition and precision and must be replaced.

I'd be willing to bet that Elio has ordered those temporary dies. Since the entire car is done in cad/cam programs, doing take-offs to have the dies made is only a matter of sending the body specs to the die maker, who takes it from there. It's all computer-controlled, and does not, I understand, take terribly long to do. How long, I don't know -- I'm not any kind of expert in tool and die making. But I'm absolutely certain Elio has these under way right now.

EDIT

Whoever is stamping out the frames may be able to do the body panels. People like http://www.pttech.us/stamping/ or these guys: http://www.aminonac.ca (they'e Canadian, but we're talking short-run here). Here's what they can do: Parts Portfolio »

FURTHER EDIT

Here's a Youtube video of how a car door is stamped and assembled. Elio's process will be similar.

This is where I spent five years (1989-94). Brings back many memories of the stamping & door assy departments. Thanks for finding the video.

 

[AriLea]

There are intermediate stamping dies available that are not built from the same steel as the factory dies and so are a ton less costly. They are somewhat softer, and as I recall, are good for about 50,000 copies before they lose definition and precision and must be replaced.

I'd be willing to bet that Elio has ordered those temporary dies. Since the entire car is done in cad/cam programs, doing take-offs to have the dies made is only a matter of sending the body specs to the die maker, who takes it from there. It's all computer-controlled, and does not, I understand, take terribly long to do. How long, I don't know -- I'm not any kind of expert in tool and die making. But I'm absolutely certain Elio has these under way right now.

EDIT

Whoever is stamping out the frames may be able to do the body panels. People like http://www.pttech.us/stamping/ or these guys: http://www.aminonac.ca (they'e Canadian, but we're talking short-run here). Here's what they can do: Parts Portfolio »

FURTHER EDIT

Here's a Youtube video of how a car door is stamped and assembled. Elio's process will be similar.

As a comparison, the frames are also stamped steel, and EM didn't seem to take much time to switch to that.

 

[Ty]

As a comparison, the frames are also stamped steel, and EM didn't seem to take much time to switch to that.

Good point. Like others have pondered, how long will the switch take? IF the body is finalized, it shouldn't take too long. But, IF Elio is still evaluating the body for aerodynamics, they wouldn't want to spend a lot on stamps that they won't be using.

 

[Ekh]

Good point. Like others have pondered, how long will the switch take? IF the body is finalized, it shouldn't take too long. But, IF Elio is still evaluating the body for aerodynamics, they wouldn't want to spend a lot on stamps that they won't be using.

I think the body is about there -- undercarriage, empennage (all the crap around the wheels), hood pins, that's about all there is left to tweak. Now it's time to go after body weight, squeeze another 25 pounds if they can (and I doubt they can).

You know, Jerome's slip-of-the-tongue, if that's what it was, keeps telling me that highway mileage isn't the problem, it's city mileage that presents the challenge.

 

[AriLea]

I think the body is about there -- undercarriage, empennage (all the crap around the wheels), hood pins, that's about all there is left to tweak. Now it's time to go after body weight, squeeze another 25 pounds if they can (and I doubt they can).

You know, Jerome's slip-of-the-tongue, if that's what it was, keeps telling me that highway mileage isn't the problem, it's city mileage that presents the challenge.

And that one relates to the gearing balanced against the weight and rubber on the road. Weight being the biggie.