Wheel Fenders, Fairings, Skirts, Covers

[zelio]

Recently following this thread, I implore that all the aesthetic enthusiasts engage in open minded thinking about exposed wheels.

Tonight's post is an open eyed view of the 'fender' debate, which considers the pros and cons of running an open wheeled vehicle to the currently proposed shrouded wheel of the Elio P4. I offer that reasons for covering the wheels are tenfold to the reasons to leave them uncovered. In that light, observe the following:

Top Ten Reasons for Elio Wheels Shields*

10. Additional surface area to place advertising.
9. Place to put bumper stickers that can actually be read by passing motorists that say things like "Me and 80+ mpg" or "Do not sit on wheel covers'.
8. Expands physical appearance and presence of the otherwise narrow vehicle.
7. Offers potential to place LEDs or other lighting effects to enhance appearance or safety.
6. Prevents massive rain-spray cloud from forming in wet driving conditions (think of the common SUV) and dousing windscreen, particularly when turning.
5. Prevents debris or mud-spray from pelting or showering the vehicle, particularly when turning (this can ruin a paint job very quickly).
4. Reduces exterior noise of the wheels in the same way air and turbulence are reduced.
3. Eliminates potential 'climbing' of adjacent vehicle that might drift into your lane, thereby increasing safety.
2. Emits the Elio coolness or uniqueness factor while needlessly driving around your neighborhood to show off your awesome new ride.
1. Reduces aerodynamic drag by a factor of 2 or more, thus attaining the 84 mpg target.

Top Ten Reasons to run open wheel or P2 or P3 style stubby 'fenders':

1. Personal preference for styling (as in expected or accustomed appearance).

Sorry, there really is no other rational reason other than 'looks'.

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* Terminology:
US: Fender - Short for Defender (old school)
British: Guard - Short for Mudguard (old school)
Tech: Shroud or Shield - better technical description of the Elio P4 wheel cover
('wheel shields' has greater poetic effect).

-------------------------
For tech support on reason #1, do your own research. A couple of suggested sites are:
http://www.gmecca.com/byorc/dtipsaerodynamics.html
http://www.motorsport.com/automotive/news/irl-open-wheel-car-aerodynamics/
http://www2.hesston.edu/Physics/PhysicsRacing/researchpaper.htm’

The take-away of all this is that the coefficient of drag "Cd" dramatically increases with the increasing exposure of the rotating wheel to the point that an open wheel vehicle will more than double the drag experienced by a closed wheel vehicle. The Cd will literally increase from 0.30 or less to 0.50, 0.60 or more. One simple quote: "The biggest sources of drag on an open wheel car like an Indy car are the wheels. ...the wheels account for about 60% of the total drag." (DBN477 presented some goo info – thanks.)

This means that if you remove the Elio wheel shrouds, your highway mileage will drop to that of a common Honda Civic or worse, given the intentionally relatively low power of the Elio engine. Think of the Elio as a system or an organism. It all works together and is more than just the sum of its parts. Synergy. This is how Paul Elio thinks. I am sure he is very cognizant of R. Buckminster Fuller and the Dymaxion project. (read about Bucky if you have time.)

Thank you, Paolo, for that exposé on wheel shrouds/fenders/mudguards. It is a lot more interesting than this weeks Tech Talk and the last two weeks blogs from Elio Motors. I laughed when I read some of it and I am still smiling. I think the responses are going to be "ve-ry in-ter-es-ting". LOL Z

Now, if you will excuse me, it is 5:10am and I am going back to bed. :-)

 

[lafrisbee]

I loved both Paulo and Autoxdriver's thoughts being expressed so (wheel)well. I can only hope they continue the discussion....

 

[raybonz]

This is becoming way too technical! If you don't like the fenders, change, modify or remove them.. I will probably leave them as-is.. To me a car is a tool to get from point A to point B and a necessary evil.. Rather than pile money into cars I'd rather go to the Caribbean or a cruise.. Give me reliability, comfort, good gas mileage, AC, heat, decent radio and cruise control and I will be happy! A low cost or free trip computer would be a nice item to have but not a show stopper..

Ray

 

[lafrisbee]

And here I thought the topic was "fenders"
Everyone can feel free to talk too technically for some people and there is the ability for those to not read certain threads, and to start threads on why they feel better about pissing away money riding around in a tin can with a bunch of other people that want to be trapped with a bunch of strangers till they get to a second-rate tourist destination under the "anything not dealing with the EE.
(Now do you see how out of place your remark was?)

 

[Joshua Caldwell]

I want custom fenders for 2 reasons.
1) The main reason I want custom a LED stripe on my fenders is so that if someone passes me at night they can see the distance to the side they have to pass at, because some people pass really darn close to you and outrigger wheels are not normal.
2) Headlights on the fenders so the light steers into turns.
The picture below is precisely what I want (but with fully enclosed wheels)

 

[zelio]

I want custom fenders for 2 reasons.
1) The main reason I want custom a LED stripe on my fenders is so that if someone passes me at night they can see the distance to the side they have to pass at, because some people pass really darn close to you and outrigger wheels are not normal.
2) Headlights on the fenders so the light steers into turns.
The picture below is precisely what I want (but with fully enclosed wheels)

That will be very beautiful but also looks expensive. The alternative I plan to use for the same reasons is reflective tape. Not as exquisite but I will try to create a reflective image that improves that safety factor as well as being interesting. I look forward to doing that. Thanks for the picture. I'll know who you are if I see you coming or going down the road. LOL :-) Z

 

[Joshua Caldwell]

I'm budgeting $10,000 for the Elio, with the post-all-in price being due $5300. The trade-in value of my current car is between $3000 and $4000, so I'm anticipating $3000, which would make the Elio $2300 out of pocket. To that I'm assuming $500 in assorted closing fees, $500 in delivery fees, $1000 for automatic transmission, $300 for cruise control. This brings the out of pocket cost up to $4600.

http://www.customlightingefx.com/Can-Am-Spyder.html
For the product TRI-Color MagicFLEX® Channels the cost will be $130, fender brake lights $100, fender headlights $150. The out of pocket cost is now $5000 (rounding) With a LCD instrument panel (to replace the Elgin design) I'm guessimating another $1000, making the out of pocket cost $6000.

I'm planning for a $10,000 401k loan at a 4% interest rate which gets paid back to myself instead of a bank and so that leaves $4000 to spend on other options with whatever is left going for a vacation in Yellowstone National Park

 

[JNR]

I want custom fenders for 2 reasons.
1) The main reason I want custom a LED stripe on my fenders is so that if someone passes me at night they can see the distance to the side they have to pass at, because some people pass really darn close to you and outrigger wheels are not normal.
2) Headlights on the fenders so the light steers into turns.
The picture below is precisely what I want (but with fully enclosed wheels)

I also pray this is an option we can get, or at least something very similar.

 

[Kuda]

Think of the Elio as a system or an organism. It all works together and is more than just the sum of its parts. Synergy. This is how Paul Elio thinks. I am sure he is very cognizant of R. Buckminster Fuller and the Dymaxion project. (read about Bucky if you have time.)[/quote]

Cool: https://www.google.com/search?q=Buc...QN8eorQGI64DYCw&ved=0CD4QsAQ&biw=1344&bih=684

 

[ecdriver711]

Thank you, Paolo, for that exposé on wheel shrouds/fenders/mudguards. It is a lot more interesting than this weeks Tech Talk and the last two weeks blogs from Elio Motors. I laughed when I read some of it and I am still smiling. I think the responses are going to be "ve-ry in-ter-es-ting". LOL Z

Now, if you will excuse me, it is 5:10am and I am going back to bed.

I'm budgeting $10,000 for the Elio, with the post-all-in price being due $5300. The trade-in value of my current car is between $3000 and $4000, so I'm anticipating $3000, which would make the Elio $2300 out of pocket. To that I'm assuming $500 in assorted closing fees, $500 in delivery fees, $1000 for automatic transmission, $300 for cruise control. This brings the out of pocket cost up to $4600.

http://www.customlightingefx.com/Can-Am-Spyder.html
For the product TRI-Color MagicFLEX® Channels the cost will be $130, fender brake lights $100, fender headlights $150. The out of pocket cost is now $5000 (rounding) With a LCD instrument panel (to replace the Elgin design) I'm guessimating another $1000, making the out of pocket cost $6000.

I'm planning for a $10,000 401k loan at a 4% interest rate which gets paid back to myself instead of a bank and so that leaves $4000 to spend on other options with whatever is left going for a vacation in Yellowstone National Park

It seems on the Can Am the lamps are replacements. How are you going to mount the lights with a cool flush look?