Elio Wiping Out Tesla!

[satx]

......"Those things which are verbally true may be factually inaccurate"......... (a former AT&T vice president)

It cost pollution to build the wind turbines.
It cost pollution to transport the wind turbines.
It cost pollution to erect the wind turbines.
It cost pollution to build the high voltage power line towers.
It cost pollution to clear cut miles and miles of right of way to put up the high voltage power lines.
It cost carbon sink capacity of the clear cut areas.

Much as we all wish for it, there is no such thing as free lunch.

LOL

 

[Reid3400]

LOL

Smoking is good for your self image. Fast food along with exercise is good for you. Wind power kills millions of migrating birds. Windmills change the local weather. I read on the internet that an Elio is a death trap! Is there a guarantee I can kill myself in one on the first try?

 

[satx]

Smoking is good for your self image. Fast food along with exercise is good for you. Wind power kills millions of migrating birds. Windmills change the local weather. I read on the internet that an Elio is a death trap! Is there a guarantee I can kill myself in one on the first try?

LOL

 

[NSTG8R]

.... Is there a guarantee I can kill myself in one on the first try?

Yes...If you try hard enough!

 

[Rickb]

Got a URL? I'd like to read that. It sounds interesting.

http://grist.org/news/more-of-americas-wind-turbines-are-actually-being-built-in-america/

 

[JEBar]

where does the power come from when the wind doesn't blow ....

"The average capacity factor — that is the output of an electricity-producing asset over a period of time divided by its maximum theoretical power output — was about 32 percent for wind power in the US over the past 3 years (Source). The Hawi Renewable Development Wind Farm is a little bit better than that at 45 percent, but for the 55 percent of the time that it isn’t producing power, backup is required. Often, intermittent renewable power power supplies are backed up by dirty and inefficient power.

The Waimea Generating Station is located only a few hundred yards from my house. It is owned and operated by Hawaii Electric Light Company, Inc. (HELCO). The plant consists of three 2.5 MW diesel engine generators that are fired on Number 2 fuel oil with a maximum sulfur content of 0.5 percent by weight. Every time I notice that its calm on my morning run, I can always find the smoke rising from these generators. They come on when the wind turbines aren’t spinning." (source : from this link )

the bottom line is when the wind doesn't blow, wind turbines do not product power .... in addition, sufficient wind may or may not correspond with peak demand .... we spend the summer in South Dakota where we can see the windmills in a massive wind farm in Minnesota .... when the wind doesn't blow the missing power has to come from somewhere .... as the author says above, when the wind doesn't blow the diesel generators fire up

 

[ks6c]

..."The average capacity factor — that is the output of an electricity-producing asset over a period of time divided by its maximum theoretical power output — was about 32 percent for wind power in the US over the past 3 years (Source)....

<snipped to focus on a point>
JE, first I should say that I agree entirely with the premise of your post. The EIA chart you link, though, is a great example of how proponents of alternative energy sources manipulate statistics to promote an agenda.

If you look at the first column for Capacity Factors for nuclear, you will see several months with CF in the high 70%'s to low 80%'s - true on it's face, but not an indicator of implied low reliability because these low #'s are the result of command decisions (low customer demand, other cheaper sources available, load balancing, etc.) and never for the lack of fuel. IOW, they could be ramped up at a moment's notice, if required.

A low wind alternative energy source CF is almost entirely due to lack of fuel - i.e., NO WIND - so no matter how desperately you might need additional power generation, you can't get it from a wind turbine when the wind isn't blowing.

For the EIA to place these indicators side by side, implying they are technically equivalent, is disingenuous.

 

[Rickb]

where does the power come from when the wind doesn't blow ....

"The average capacity factor — that is the output of an electricity-producing asset over a period of time divided by its maximum theoretical power output — was about 32 percent for wind power in the US over the past 3 years (Source). The Hawi Renewable Development Wind Farm is a little bit better than that at 45 percent, but for the 55 percent of the time that it isn’t producing power, backup is required. Often, intermittent renewable power power supplies are backed up by dirty and inefficient power.

The Waimea Generating Station is located only a few hundred yards from my house. It is owned and operated by Hawaii Electric Light Company, Inc. (HELCO). The plant consists of three 2.5 MW diesel engine generators that are fired on Number 2 fuel oil with a maximum sulfur content of 0.5 percent by weight. Every time I notice that its calm on my morning run, I can always find the smoke rising from these generators. They come on when the wind turbines aren’t spinning." (source : from this link )

the bottom line is when the wind doesn't blow, wind turbines do not product power .... in addition, sufficient wind may or may not correspond with peak demand .... we spend the summer in South Dakota where we can see the windmills in a massive wind farm in Minnesota .... when the wind doesn't blow the missing power has to come from somewhere .... as the author says above, when the wind doesn't blow the diesel generators fire up

..........and when the wind blows the diesel generators shut off and no smoke rising on a clear day and always less smoke produced by the coal burning grid. The wind is backing up the diesel engine generators. Both are good for the economy providing jobs for people building turbines and people building diesel engine generators.

I'm guessing when the wind turbines are running at peak efficiency they are either storing power for future use or selling excess power generated to the coal burning grid requiring them to burn less coal, an important part of the equation. I see the value of both. Renewables are supplements helping to insure a variety of affordable energy options/sources in the future.

I can envision owning 2 future Elios: The cross country Elio ICE (86 MPG) and The high performance city Elio ELECTRIC (450 MPGe) Obviously not for everybody, but I would appreciate the option and it would expand EM's market and model lineup. Common sense tells me that it's important to have energy options. No implied agenda.

 

[JEBar]

I'll be the first to admit when it comes to all the specs, the ins and outs, and such that I know next to nothing or even less .... with energy from wind, the thing that make sense to me is you can't make power when the wind doesn't blow .... with solar, you can't make power when the sun doesn't shine .... saying that doesn't mean I'm against them .... earlier this year took out a solar heating and hot water system that was installed in our home back when Jimmy Carter was president .... it served us well but I have no interest in ever installing another .... for folks who are willing to pay for it, I have no problem with them doing so .... we got a huge tax credit on our former solar system .... without it we would not have installed it .... that was good for us but took money out of other people's pocket

 

[Paul DeCrans]

where does the power come from when the wind doesn't blow ....

"The average capacity factor — that is the output of an electricity-producing asset over a period of time divided by its maximum theoretical power output — was about 32 percent for wind power in the US over the past 3 years (Source). The Hawi Renewable Development Wind Farm is a little bit better than that at 45 percent, but for the 55 percent of the time that it isn’t producing power, backup is required. Often, intermittent renewable power power supplies are backed up by dirty and inefficient power.

The Waimea Generating Station is located only a few hundred yards from my house. It is owned and operated by Hawaii Electric Light Company, Inc. (HELCO). The plant consists of three 2.5 MW diesel engine generators that are fired on Number 2 fuel oil with a maximum sulfur content of 0.5 percent by weight. Every time I notice that its calm on my morning run, I can always find the smoke rising from these generators. They come on when the wind turbines aren’t spinning." (source : from this link )

the bottom line is when the wind doesn't blow, wind turbines do not product power .... in addition, sufficient wind may or may not correspond with peak demand .... we spend the summer in South Dakota where we can see the windmills in a massive wind farm in Minnesota .... when the wind doesn't blow the missing power has to come from somewhere .... as the author says above, when the wind doesn't blow the diesel generators fire up

As someone who grew up in Minnesota and lives in ND I can tell you the wind rarely ever stops. I once went sky diving and the instructor wouldn't take us unless the wind was below 12 mph. It took over a month for us to finally be able to jump.