Electric Elio?

[slinches]

I think fuel cells missed their window technologically. The hydrocarbon burning ones have the same issues as an ICE when it comes to fossil fuels and hydrogen is just a less efficient means of energy storage compared to batteries. And considering that batteries have outpaced them in terms of energy density improvement, it's likely that they will mostly die off except for some specific scientific applications.

 

[Coss]

I think fuel cells missed their window technologically. The hydrocarbon burning ones have the same issues as an ICE when it comes to fossil fuels and hydrogen is just a less efficient means of energy storage compared to batteries. And considering that batteries have outpaced them in terms of energy density improvement, it's likely that they will mostly die off except for some specific scientific applications.

You might want to talk to Toyota, GM and a few others that are rolling some out then
There are more out than you might be aware of

http://www.driveclean.ca.gov/Search_and_Explore/Technologies_and_Fuel_Types/Hydrogen_Fuel_Cell.php

http://www.afdc.energy.gov/fuels/

http://www.c2es.org/technology/factsheet/HydrogenFuelCellVehicles

 

[Coss]

One other big benefit of fuel cell is that it does have a refuel time equal to an ICE; they also have longer range than electric without the weight with it.
And the exhaust is warm air and water.

 

[Ty]

Once more.... 50hp hub motor on the rear of my Elio... small battery pack mostly to just help during acceleration and maybe during flat/downhill cruising. Double the HP of my Elio in short bursts... Or, if it had just a 10 mile range, it could cut overall fuel consumption by more than 50% for most commutes while the engine would only be needed for longer trips.

 

[Sethodine]

Once more.... 50hp hub motor on the rear of my Elio... small battery pack mostly to just help during acceleration and maybe during flat/downhill cruising. Double the HP of my Elio in short bursts... Or, if it had just a 10 mile range, it could cut overall fuel consumption by more than 50% for most commutes while the engine would only be needed for longer trips.

So, 55hp in the Elio is probably....what, 30 BHP? So about 20kw of peak power, which a 10-15kw motor ought to be able to achieve. Unfortunately, I'm having a heck of a time finding anything larger than an 8kw hub motor. Most in the 10-30kw range are all mounted onto belt/chain drives.

 

[bunchathrees]

For handling purposes, it still seems worth extra vehicle weight to keep the unsprung mass low. But there is this company: http://www.proteanelectric.com/ which has been focused on hub motors for a while.

 

[AriLea]

It's all about the cross section presented to the direction of travel. The Elio just cuts through the air better than a wide box, so efficiency stats double. And three wheels create less drag than four, friction wise, so you get a bit more there. So I'd just wing it and say the eElio (E-lio?) would get at least 216 MPGe. 225? 230? 250?

Typically the MPGe is at least double the MPG for equivalent sized cars(using LiIon). So I'd expect an all electric Elio to get at least 168 MPGe. So yes 216MPGe is probably with-in reach.

 

[AriLea]

So, 55hp in the Elio is probably....what, 30 BHP? So about 20kw of peak power, which a 10-15kw motor ought to be able to achieve. Unfortunately, I'm having a heck of a time finding anything larger than an 8kw hub motor. Most in the 10-30kw range are all mounted onto belt/chain drives.

You have to keep in mind there is a huge difference in HP ratings of ICE vs KW rating of electric motors. You need to look at both the peak and continuous rating. ICE is always a continuous rating at peak. But e-motors have a peak that is sometimes 5x the continuous in a DC-traction motor. And peak has a time limit too. And air-cooled DC motor might be rated 10hp, 50hp peak at 5min. OR quoted in KW. An AC might be rated only 2x the continuous but a time limit of 10min.

Sometimes the hub motors for cars are being quoted at some peak at a longer time. Most are not telling you the peaks in advos, you need the spec sheets.

 

[AriLea]

For handling purposes, it still seems worth extra vehicle weight to keep the unsprung mass low. But there is this company: http://www.proteanelectric.com/ which has been focused on hub motors for a while.

I love the idea of how hubs solve space issues. But, I'll tell you straight up, there are lots of issues with hub motors. Servicing the seals for one. If I have CV's and an adaptable tranny for an full out EV, I'll either go single motor bolted to the tranny, or two oversized in-board motors belted to the CV's. That's dynamically a far superior level from hub motors. And too, you can get liquid cooled motors which are better power to weight than air-cooled or heat sink like hub are. You would think HUBs would have better cooling, but there isn't the space/weight to do that right.
Granted, hubs maybe the best way to do bolt-on hybrid. But then you don't need as much HP compared to full out EV.
But to each their own, it's just my preference.

 

[AriLea]

I think fuel cells missed their window technologically. The hydrocarbon burning ones have the same issues as an ICE when it comes to fossil fuels and hydrogen is just a less efficient means of energy storage compared to batteries. And considering that batteries have outpaced them in terms of energy density improvement, it's likely that they will mostly die off except for some specific scientific applications.

This is true for some of the 'standard' fuel cells of the past, and partly based on price. But the new ones and expected improvements are changing the game a bit. It's not ready for prime-time in the US, but where you can use policy to manage the infrastructure, well, they are planning on giving it a go and we'll see.