Sondors Electric Car

[Jeff Miller]

Yep. When three-wheelers get more mainstream, the regulators will catch on to the number of manufacturers that are taking advantage of a regulatory loophole to bypass all their laws. The more crappy death traps there are on the market, the quicker it will happen, and the harder they will come down on everyone when they do. That's why I'm glad that Elio is still holding to the full testing and safety route. The further you can go to meet as many of the truly safety-related regulations as you can, the better it will be for everyone.

I'm actually hoping that regulators crack down even faster. There are a number of EV vehicles that meet your description of "crappy death trap" and I have already seen efforts to reign those vehicles in. Additionally, the slingshot and much of its competition are performance machines first with safety at best an afterthought. These deadly machines are made worse by people driving them beyond their own capabilities.

People are so used to the safety devices in cars that they don't think about traction control, anti-lock brakes, seat belts, or even air bags until they actually need them so they don't even bother to think about them when they are off buying either a cheap death trap or an expensive performance machine.

My fear is that since 3 wheeled vehicles still need to prove themselves as safe alternatives that crashes and deaths in other less safety oriented machines could essentially cause the 3 wheeled market to die before it ever gets going. People would just cite all the deaths and ignore the fact that these cheap death traps or performance oriented, safety last, machines were the cause; not that the vehicle was 3 wheels.

I have said as much before and got nagged at for promoting nanny state behavior. I'm all for freedom of choice and would support people's decisions to do things that I think are stupid, but ultimately you need to make sure people understand, and accept, that if they choose to buy a 3 wheel vehicle that was not designed with safety in mind that they could very well end up dead.

 

[Sethodine]

Yep. When three-wheelers get more mainstream, the regulators will catch on to the number of manufacturers that are taking advantage of a regulatory loophole to bypass all their laws. The more crappy death traps there are on the market, the quicker it will happen, and the harder they will come down on everyone when they do. That's why I'm glad that Elio is still holding to the full testing and safety route. The further you can go to meet as many of the truly safety-related regulations as you can, the better it will be for everyone.

Plus, by trailblazing the "autocycle safety" route, Elio is setting the standards for the future. Other autocycles will be measured against the Elio yardstick, and EM will no doubt have a strong hand in determining the crash safety test protocals for three-wheelers of the future.

 

[Rickb]

Let's not forget that for people like Sondors, the 3 wheel layout is meant to keep costs low as it qualifies as an autocycle, for which the stringent car safety tests and regulations do not apply. The question therefore is: would you pay 10K for a vehicle that is substandard-safe instead of some pre-used sporty hatchback? (Btw, between RickB and me, still no news from the FTRC front....)

Voyager, I had a recent email chat with Derwin. He said he's having some computer/software glitches being fixed and the FTRC will be back up and running....................bigger and better than ever.

 

[Rickb]

Is their some indication that safety is a non-issue for Sonders in the development of his trike EV Concept? Perhaps he will set the standard?
Quite frankly, once the Solo is crash tested we may find that Electra Meccanica has set the standards of safety for enclosed three wheeler motorcycles. Defensive driving and a highly maneuverable vehicle and accident avoidance is key to motorcycle safety. The Elio will be as maneuverable as the average mid sized family sedan and how much safety can EM build into a $7300 vehicle? Perhaps autocycle owners should be required to have a MC endorsement.

The car buying public expects to see an acceptable measured safety rating on the window sticker or they will not buy the vehicle. It's going to be interesting to watch public acceptance of any of the anticipated enclosed three wheelers struggling to get to production. The anticipated 5 star safety may not make a difference since smaller is considered to be unsafe by the average driver and always will.

I question the five star safety rating of any small vehicle platform unless it has an engineered NASCAR roll cage like the Tango Commuter Car's.

 

[Frim]

FRIM!!! Are you out of that over priced hotel or are they still holding you captive?

I escaped. But need to rest another week

 

[Kuda]

I escaped. But need to rest another week

Happy to hear!
https://www.amazon.com/dp/1931078270/ref=olp_product_details?_encoding=UTF8&me=
Top Customer Reviews
5.0 out of 5 starsTo all the skeptics & those who have actually tried it!
By David C. Post on January 15, 2003

 

[Jeff Miller]

Is their some indication that safety is a non-issue for Sonders in the development of his trike EV Concept? Perhaps he will set the standard? Quite frankly, once the Solo is crash tested we may find that Electra Meccanica has set the standards of safety for enclosed three wheeler motorcycles. Defensive driving and a highly maneuverable vehicle and accident avoidance is key to motorcycle safety. The Elio will be as maneuverable as the average mid sized family sedan and much safety can EM build into a $7300 vehicle?

You may be correct that once the Solo is crash tested that it may be safe but for now I have seen little discussion, much less any modeling or engineering to indicate any attempt to be as safe as the elio. All I have seen are comments that it is safer than a 2 wheel motorcycle. Can you point to articles that do provide the kind of detailed safety design aspects that Elio Motors has provided for the elio?

Why do you question the safety desires of Elio Motors? The elio has a number of safety components already designed, modeled, and incorporated within the $7300 price of the elio. Safety devices inclusive of crush zones, seat belts, and air bags as well as traction and stability control and anti-lock brakes are among the many safety devices that EM has documented, provided simulations for, and has now shown in the E1C.

As for crash testing the Solo, did Electra Meccanica sign up to do this? With federal laws declaring a 3-wheel vehicle to be a motorcycle they aren't required to do any crash testing. Elio Motors has stated that they will do crash testing and I for one am glad that they are up front about committing to this as well as making the information learned available to the public. We can only hope that Electra Meccanica does the same.

I agree that knowing how to drive defensively and having a maneuverable vehicle are good things for avoiding accidents. Are you somehow implying that the Solo will be able to do this better than the Elio? Why? What makes you believe that?

Perhaps autocycle owners should be required to have a MC endorsement.

Your statement seems to want to equate an autocycle with motorcycles and thus owners should have a MC endorsement. In fact, an autocycle is so much not like a 2-wheel MC that requiring a MC endorsement would do little to help improve the safety of the operator.

The reality is that with 3 wheels, normal seating and a steering wheel the autocycle drives nothing like a 2-wheel MC but by missing a 4th wheel it likely also drives differently than a car. It is for these reasons that so many states are busy rewriting laws to classify an autocycle as something different from a motorcycle. In doing so, those states, and hopefully the federal government, will create standards that will help protect the ignorant public.

When the public sees normal seating, steering wheel, and controls that make them think the vehicle is a car, the public is expecting that the vehicle will be built to the same safety standards as a car. Today, many manufactures skirt these safety issues by masquerading as a motorcycle for safety laws while duping their customers into thinking that the vehicle is as safe as their toyota when in fact, it is not.

I don't see any information on Electra Meccanica's website to indicate what they plan to do with the Solo but I hope they are building a safe vehicle with all the technologies that are used in cars today and that are already part of the elio design.

The car buying public expects to see an acceptable measured safety rating on the window sticker or they will not buy the vehicle. It's going to be interesting to watch public acceptance of any of the anticipated enclosed three wheelers struggling to get to production. The anticipated 5 star safety may not make a difference since smaller is considered to be unsafe by the average driver and always will.

I question the five star safety rating of any small vehicle platform unless it has an engineered NASCAR roll cage like the Tango Commuter Car's.

Such a sticker does not exist on current 3-wheel vehicles and the public is blissfully buying them with the ignorant assumption that because you sit in it and control it like a car that it must be designed to car safety standards. This is why it is so important for state and federal authorities to really define true autocycle standards so that the ignorant buying public will be safer even when they aren't informed.

The 5-star rating is something that EM has backed away from. They have done so not because they don't want to achieve it but because some of the tests to get the rating simply don't make sense in a 3 wheel configuration. This is again why it is so important that govt agencies work to define true autocycle safety standards inclusive of testing that is meaningful and that once completed can be mandated and advertised on a window sticker.

It isn't clear if Electra Meccanica is planning to provide a safety rating but if we eventually get true autocycle legislation and safety tests identified that are appropriate to 3-wheel vehicles the buying public will be guaranteed that Electra Mechannica, Elio Motors, Polaris, T-Rex, etc. will need to start not only producing safety conscious designs but also telling the buying public how well they did at making a safe vehicle.

 

[Rickb]

You may be correct that once the Solo is crash tested that it may be safe but for now I have seen little discussion, much less any modeling or engineering to indicate any attempt to be as safe as the elio. All I have seen are comments that it is safer than a 2 wheel motorcycle. Can you point to articles that do provide the kind of detailed safety design aspects that Elio Motors has provided for the elio?

Why do you question the safety desires of Elio Motors? The elio has a number of safety components already designed, modeled, and incorporated within the $7300 price of the elio. Safety devices inclusive of crush zones, seat belts, and air bags as well as traction and stability control and anti-lock brakes are among the many safety devices that EM has documented, provided simulations for, and has now shown in the E1C.

As for crash testing the Solo, did Electra Meccanica sign up to do this? With federal laws declaring a 3-wheel vehicle to be a motorcycle they aren't required to do any crash testing. Elio Motors has stated that they will do crash testing and I for one am glad that they are up front about committing to this as well as making the information learned available to the public. We can only hope that Electra Meccanica does the same.

I agree that knowing how to drive defensively and having a maneuverable vehicle are good things for avoiding accidents. Are you somehow implying that the Solo will be able to do this better than the Elio? Why? What makes you believe that?



Your statement seems to want to equate an autocycle with motorcycles and thus owners should have a MC endorsement. In fact, an autocycle is so much not like a 2-wheel MC that requiring a MC endorsement would do little to help improve the safety of the operator.

The reality is that with 3 wheels, normal seating and a steering wheel the autocycle drives nothing like a 2-wheel MC but by missing a 4th wheel it likely also drives differently than a car. It is for these reasons that so many states are busy rewriting laws to classify an autocycle as something different from a motorcycle. In doing so, those states, and hopefully the federal government, will create standards that will help protect the ignorant public.

When the public sees normal seating, steering wheel, and controls that make them think the vehicle is a car, the public is expecting that the vehicle will be built to the same safety standards as a car. Today, many manufactures skirt these safety issues by masquerading as a motorcycle for safety laws while duping their customers into thinking that the vehicle is as safe as their toyota when in fact, it is not.

I don't see any information on Electra Meccanica's website to indicate what they plan to do with the Solo but I hope they are building a safe vehicle with all the technologies that are used in cars today and that are already part of the elio design.



Such a sticker does not exist on current 3-wheel vehicles and the public is blissfully buying them with the ignorant assumption that because you sit in it and control it like a car that it must be designed to car safety standards. This is why it is so important for state and federal authorities to really define true autocycle standards so that the ignorant buying public will be safer even when they aren't informed.

The 5-star rating is something that EM has backed away from. They have done so not because they don't want to achieve it but because some of the tests to get the rating simply don't make sense in a 3 wheel configuration. This is again why it is so important that govt agencies work to define true autocycle safety standards inclusive of testing that is meaningful and that once completed can be mandated and advertised on a window sticker.

It isn't clear if Electra Meccanica is planning to provide a safety rating but if we eventually get true autocycle legislation and safety tests identified that are appropriate to 3-wheel vehicles the buying public will be guaranteed that Electra Mechannica, Elio Motors, Polaris, T-Rex, etc. will need to start not only producing safety conscious designs but also telling the buying public how well they did at making a safe vehicle.

Jeff, I'm not questioning Elio Motor's safety desires, only need to see crash testing results and validation. It's a smart and admirable effort on EM's part. I think EM backed away from marketing the 5 star safety rating because it's not achievable. Early on anticipated five star safety was used as a marketing strategy to help lock in reservations, by interested people doubting it's safety.

Electra Meccanica states Canada's compliance testing requires the Solo to be crash tested. Jerry Kroll made interesting statements claiming that the Solo's spaceage composite frame, carbon fiber body panels, Wilwood Brakes and other features will help to make the Solo the safest car on the planet. "It's like driving around in a crash helmet". Also, curious to see the Solo's cash testing results and validation.

After watching videos of both the Elio and the Solo I concluded the EV's instant torque and shorter wheel base make the Solo quicker and far more maneuverable than the Elio. I need a test drive to validate that conclusion.

I will appreciate all the safety features either pack into their final production vehicles.

 

[floydv]

Whether one vehicle is better able to avoid a crash is one issue, but equally important to me is what happens IF and WHEN the vehicle actually does get involved in a crash. If I crash in a Solo or Sondors, what's relevant to me at that point is how well would the driver (and passenger, if applicable) survive and avoid death or major injuries; it's a bit late at that point to argue that the vehicle theoretically should have been able to avoid the accident. To this point, I'm glad Elio Motors is making safety and safety testing a key part of its selling points, rather than as an afterthought or by mere comparison to the motorcycle baseline (yes, it's probably safer to crash in any covered 3-wheeler relative to a motorcycle, but there are many of us who are looking to the Elio as a replacement for a 4-wheeled commuter, not as a replacement for a motorcycle).

 

[Sethodine]

This thread is starting to sound a bit like "my dad can beat up your dad"....