Atvm News - 2018 Fed Budget Proposal

[TheAsterisk!]

It's great to think that Elio will be a blockbuster hit, but until the car actually gets out on the road in peoples hands, we will never know if it'll be a flop or not. All it takes is for one flaw and the press will be all over it. The chance of having a few flaws is pretty good in the real world.

I fully expect an initial trade press panic over otherwise unassuming and typical issues experienced by every new automotive platform launch. The trade press (and press in general) adore Tesla, for reasons I can't fully fathom, and we see fairly regular animosity for the basic idea of the Elio, opinions of the company (Elio Motors) notwithstanding.

Elio can't count on that people will be clamoring for the car, ordering them online, going to Shreveport to pick them up and will drive them around without any need for service because they can do it themselves. You can count on 1% of the people doing that but then there's the other 99%. This is not like selling a product on Amazon and shipping it to you. If it breaks, you send it to the manufacturer and they fix it. One of the big problems when the Delorean came out was that when it did break, you were waiting a month for the parts. Most dealers had no training and it was just a learn as you go. There were many other problems with Delorean but they completely left out the service and warranty after the sale. My brother bought one new and Delorean went out of business while his car was at the dealer waiting 2 months for parts. In 10 months of ownership, it sat for 4 months over various times waiting for parts. Thus, he sold it.

After comparing Elio Motors to Tesla, with a comparatively favorable view of Tesla, you bring up slow maintenance and constrained service parts supply as a point against Elio Motors? Have you paid attention to Tesla's turnaround times for in-warranty service? Clearly, they've gotten away with it. I agree, it would have a negative effect, but perhaps Tesla and the financier-playing-engineer Musk aren't the types you should hold up as examples, then.

What happens if you don't live close to a Pep Boys. For example, St. Louis has no Pep Boys and the closest ones are in Chicago or Springfield, MO. I suspect that someone in the St. Louis metro area (2.8M people) will buy an Elio. What happens if the car just doesn't start one day and it's only 6 months old? What if all of the Elios need to have the rear wheel bearing changed under a safety recall because they were not installed right? Who's going to fix that? Do we just tell everyone in STL that you need to take it 200+ miles away to have warranty work done? STL is not out in the middle of nowhere, so what happens with a big metro area like that? We are talking about a $7K car not some $200K McLaren. Someone in STL is going to use their Elio to drive from Washington, MO to STL every day because it's economical. Lat thing the need is a car that's sitting in the garage broke down.

Do you actually like to panic?
Probably just do what you do if you live far from a dealership- repair it at a certified mechanic's shop, and (depending on the shop and their policies) either fill out some paperwork that gets the shop paid, or fill out some other paperwork that gets you reimbursed. (With nicer insurance, sometimes paperwork that gets the insurer reimbursed. Point is, you'll ink in some fields.) I've been present for this. It is neither novel nor particularly difficult. (Also, for those of us who are accustomed to used cars, and are looking at the Elio as a potential replacement for unwarrantied, used beaters, this wouldn't be much change to worry about, even under a reimbursement model. If you can't accept anything but prompt service, no money out-of-pocket, a few blocks from your hometown haunts, then perhaps an automotive startup isn't for you, really, nor would be several European makes, nor the products of Tesla.)

Elio will need to address that somehow because last thing you need is a bunch of Elios in certain areas of the country that are devoid of service and warranty. If you want bad PR, that'll happen in a jiffy. Again, this costs money and that's why the car business is different.

Again, you mean like Tesla has experienced, but which trade press has largely glossed over? Granted, Tesla doesn't actually refuse service, but rather tows to a remote service site, has you wait a couple of months, and doesn't offer a loaner car or anything, but it's pretty close for the affected drivers/owners, consequentially speaking.

Tesla does it, but not without issues: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_US_dealership_disputes

Apparently it varies by state and here in Texas there are certain hoops you have to jump through that someone in CA would not. So Elio would likely also run into these issues as well unless they get creative with ownership of the marshaling centers?

Amusingly, most of the existing laws that hamper Tesla do so because they apply to cars. Most do not apply to motorcycles (or autocycles, if you like). That could easily change, or be lobbied to change, if dealerships get all flustered, but right now it's mostly OK for Elio as it stands. Just something to keep an eye on.

 

[NSTG8R]

"Signing up with Pep Boys for service makes up for the lack of a dealership network on the service side and replacement parts shouldn't be an issue."

That brings up a good point. What happens if you don't live close to a Pep Boys. For example, St. Louis has no Pep Boys and the closest ones are in Chicago or Springfield, MO. I suspect that someone in the St. Louis metro area (2.8M people) will buy an Elio. What happens if the car just doesn't start one day and it's only 6 months old? What if all of the Elios need to have the rear wheel bearing changed under a safety recall because they were not installed right? Who's going to fix that? Do we just tell everyone in STL that you need to take it 200+ miles away to have warranty work done? STL is not out in the middle of nowhere, so what happens with a big metro area like that? We are talking about a $7K car not some $200K McLaren. Someone in STL is going to use their Elio to drive from Washington, MO to STL every day because it's economical. Lat thing the need is a car that's sitting in the garage broke down.

Elio will need to address that somehow because last thing you need is a bunch of Elios in certain areas of the country that are devoid of service and warranty. If you want bad PR, that'll happen in a jiffy. Again, this costs money and that's why the car business is different.

I read your comment and thought, "Alright! Another person from MO getting an Elio!". I live in Pacific, MO, not far from Washington, MO, and work up a Lambert Field [St. Louis International Airport] an 84 mile round-trip. Your concern about no Pep Boys in the area is legit and I was going to offer my services fixing your Elio if it broke down or needed periodic maintenance stuff done. The only time anybody but myself touches any of my vehicles is to have new tires put on, so I've got tons of tools and know how to use them. Then I checked where you lived [according to your avatar info], and you're up in PA. Just curious what your point was bring up the St. Louis area if you've got 5 Pep Boys locations in PA.

Nothing magical or mysterious about the Elio engine and drivetrain that I've seen. If a local mechanic can't figure out what's ailing your Elio he has no business being in business.

 

[RSchneider]

I've been to St. Louis a number of times and a high school friend of mine lives out in Washington, MO. He does about 90 miles each day for work. I will say, I do like Ted Drews, Imos Pizza and toasted ravioli.

Where I'm at, there's even a Pep Boys service only place that's by me. It used to be a Midas and turned into a Pep Boys. As for the Elio, there will be people that will be wanting to use the 3 year 36K warranty and Elio will need to have places that will follow the Elio guidelines, warranty and service procedures. There has to be some vetting process for that. That would take time and money to get that set up. The Elio is going to have an electronics package on it and like with most cars today, you need a specific reader to look at the subsystems (i.e. ABS, airbags, HVAC, convenience modules). Not everything is a simple mechanical fix and most people can't work on a car themselves. This is to be mass produced and just like you see with the Harley Davidson crowd, it went from you fix it yourself to many can't even check the tire pressures.

With all of the other things on Elio's plate, this is yet another item that takes time and money to get up and running, thus the huge initial startup costs.

 

[W. WIllie]

"We will overcome".

 

[Doug McDow]

I just received this from Elio and thought that I would share it with you.

 

[raptor213]

View attachment 21463 I just received this from Elio and thought that I would share it with you.

Wait ... that's verbatim what Booboo posted in a separate thread as a supposed custom response from EM about funding/development/production news.

I'm sure they utilize canned/prepared responses frequently to expedite processing of replies to incoming inquiries. But it's still shocking to witness it in action.

 

[Doug McDow]

Wait ... that's verbatim what Booboo posted in a separate thread as a supposed custom response from EM about funding/development/production news.

I'm sure they utilize canned/prepared responses frequently to expedite processing of replies to incoming inquiries. But it's still shocking to witness it in action.

It doesn't matter to me if it is canned. As long as it is true! That is all that I am asking for, as long as they are working hard to get financing, and make my Elio a reality.

 

[Marshall]

It doesn't matter to me if it is canned. As long as it is true! That is all that I am asking for, as long as they are working hard to get financing, and make my Elio a reality.

The benefit of a canned response is consistent answers to the same questions. A custom answer should be based on a NEW question which hasn't been asked yet or a modification of a previous answer due to a change in plans.

 

[Marshall]

I'm looking at the profitability numbers tossed around that have dire predictions of failure and I wonder how many of the SIL owners who are writing them would be willing to take 10% on the dollar for their $1000 reservations. The way I read it a fair number of those folks would look at it as $100 of "found money" instead of losing all $1000. When it comes to information I agree we are being treated like mushrooms and I see the frustrations of many on this forum. I just think some of the folks should take a deep breath and come in off the ledge...

If the SIL tranferred with the reservation, I would be happy to take you up on that. As it is, I'm already down for two and have no delusions that delivery is guaranteed.

It's a risk. This is something many do not understand. They think it's guaranteed or a scam. Risk means MAYBE!

 

[MrWhsprs]

I think I remember them saying they are trying to get their unit cost down to about $5300 so let's say at full production, they actually get it t $5450 and make $2K/unit excluding options.

There's an old (2012?) Excel workbook (that seemed to be an internal Elio document) floating around that indicated they were shooting for a 25.8% gross profit margin.