Interesting Comments From Patrick Byrne And Paul Elio...

[RSchneider]

Elio applied for 2 ATVM loans and never met the requirements from day one. I'd not blame the DoE for this. It's all water under the bridge as Elio has the funding without the ATVM loan.

 

[Thomas Malkin]

Elio applied for 2 ATVM loans and never met the requirements from day one. I'd not blame the DoE for this. It's all water under the bridge as Elio has the funding without the ATVM loan.

I forensically dissected the ATVM requirements in another thread, and the requirements - changed as of June, 2016 - were that reservations were no longer sufficient, and instead confirmed purchases were the new order of the day.

In other words, for Elio Motors to qualify for the loan, the prospective customer base had to sign contracts to buy the Elios. That would be the 65,000 of you. You had to pre-buy the cars. Or at least a percentage of you have to sign a contract - the ATVM people make it up as they wish, and don't tell anyone about it until it's too late.

In other other words, to get the loan, they had to prove they didn't need the loan.

In other other other words, no one ever is ever gonna get an ATVM loan, because a company with a contracted 65,000 orders for a not-existing-yet car is never gonna bother getting an ATVM loan.

So Elio gave up on ATVM after six years. I can't imagine what the ATVM people think their purpose is, other than investment banking? Are they staffed with investment bankers instead of tech analysts, and think their purpose is to make money off the loan money?

So yes, it was the ATVM people's fault. They kept changing the rules every time Elio qualified under the previous rules.

Here's an idea: make Ford pay off their ATVM loan, as they have announced they are no longer in the car business, but instead will make trucks. Take that money and lend it to Elio Motors, who will actually build some alternative vehicles instead of letting it sit in Ford's capital accounts, making them money instead of doing what the loan was supposed to do.

 

[Coss]

Side note** - Ford announced today that they are shutting down the F-150 plant for a while, didn't say why. or for how long.
My best guess; they are having a hard time selling the things they've already built. Ford is no long "the best selling truck".
Their sales started going down when they switched to the all aluminum bodies.
Who is up? Dodge. Seems they can't keep in stock because they sell everyone they get.

Hmmm imagine that, a truck that if you dent it, you have to replace the part, no more "pound it out" like you used to be able to do because once aluminum is bent, you can only replace it. Imagine that, a pickup you can't "pound out" a dent.

 

[raptor213]

Side note** - Ford announced today that they are shutting down the F-150 plant for a while, didn't say why. or for how long.
My best guess; they are having a hard time selling the things they've already built. Ford is no long "the best selling truck".
Their sales started going down when they switched to the all aluminum bodies.
Who is up? Dodge. Seems they can't keep in stock because they sell everyone they get.

Hmmm imagine that, a truck that if you dent it, you have to replace the part, no more "pound it out" like you used to be able to do because once aluminum is bent, you can only replace it. Imagine that, a pickup you can't "pound out" a dent.

I live in Metro Detroit. The truth is that a blue-chip supplier to Ford Motor Company suffered a really bad fire at their factory this past week. Incidentally, the highly efficient Just-in-Time logistics of running an automotive assembly line without maintaining a large cache of OEM parts in inventory equates to the assembly line getting shuttered until further notice.

As a matter of fact, all of the Big 3 automakers are directly impacted by the plant fire in Eaton Rapids, MI: https://www.nbcnews.com/business/au...oduction-f-150-temporarily-lays-3-600-n872766

 

[raptor213]

I live in Metro Detroit. The truth is that a blue-chip supplier to Ford Motor Company suffered a really bad fire at their factory this past week. Incidentally, the highly efficient Just-in-Time logistics of running an automotive assembly line without maintaining a large cache of OEM parts in inventory equates to the assembly line getting shuttered until further notice.

As a matter of fact, all of the Big 3 automakers are directly impacted by the plant fire in Eaton Rapids, MI: https://www.nbcnews.com/business/au...oduction-f-150-temporarily-lays-3-600-n872766

Breaking: https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/2018/05/11/ford-f-150-meridian-magnesium/603714002/

"Ford said late Friday it hopes to resume production of F-150 pickups as soon as next Friday, May 18."

 

[ElioWallSteet]

Side note** - Ford announced today that they are shutting down the F-150 plant for a while, didn't say why. or for how long.
My best guess; they are having a hard time selling the things they've already built. Ford is no long "the best selling truck".
Their sales started going down when they switched to the all aluminum bodies.
Who is up? Dodge. Seems they can't keep in stock because they sell everyone they get.

Hmmm imagine that, a truck that if you dent it, you have to replace the part, no more "pound it out" like you used to be able to do because once aluminum is bent, you can only replace it. Imagine that, a pickup you can't "pound out" a dent.

Actually...my research shows that the Ford F150 is still the best selling pickup year to date in 2018...

And I quote 2018 sales numbers...

Sales of the eleven pickup truck nameplates available in the USA increased by 7.89% year-on-year in March, with first quarter sales up 2.82% on Q1 2017.

Yet again the full-size Ford F-Series leads the charge, with last month representing the market-leader’s best March since the millennium. 42% of full size pickups sold in the states last month were F-Series, an increase of 2% of its share of the full size pickup market compared with a year ago.

General Motors’ pickup truck sales increased 19% year-on-year in March, despite a drop for the GMC Sierra of 7.5%. The Chevrolet-branded pair consisting the Colorado and Silverado saw growth of 51.9% and 21.1% year-on-year respectively.

Surging sales for the Toyota Tacoma, Nissan Frontier and Chevrolet Colorado are behind the strong sales of small / midsize pickup trucks so far this year. For Q1, sales of small and midsize pickups are up 26.68%.

 

[raptor213]

The small/midsize pickup segment will be further crowded once the 2019 Ford Ranger hits dealer lots in a few months.

 

[ElioWallSteet]

Who is up? Dodge....Seems they can't keep in stock because they sell everyone they get.

Actually...Dodge Ram sales are down in 2018...

 

[Coss]

Read on about Dodge, you might find more out about them.

 

[RSchneider]

So yes, it was the ATVM people's fault. They kept changing the rules every time Elio qualified under the previous rules.

I'm not defending the DoE but the last ATVM loan was given out in 2011. Many others got rejected just like Elio did. So nothing was unique about Elio's situation. It just seems that way because if you only follow Elio, you think that's the only company the ATVM loan people were dealing with, yet they were not. When you apply for a loan the second time with a program that is notorious for not giving out loans, don't complain when you don't get it. If they were handing out money left and right but somehow made it overly difficult for Elio and they kept stalling, then you can complain. As we all know, that was not the situation.

Here's an idea: make Ford pay off their ATVM loan, as they have announced they are no longer in the car business, but instead will make trucks. Take that money and lend it to Elio Motors, who will actually build some alternative vehicles instead of letting it sit in Ford's capital accounts, making them money instead of doing what the loan was supposed to do.

That makes no sense at all. Ford is paying back the loan according to the terms (with interest), just like Nissan is. It's news to me that Ford is no longer in the car business but even if they were not, what difference does is make? Elio is not in the car business at all, they are in the autocycle business. The loan is for Vehicles and be it a car, truck, bus or autocycle, they are Vehicles.

Hmmm imagine that, a truck that if you dent it, you have to replace the part, no more "pound it out" like you used to be able to do because once aluminum is bent, you can only replace it. Imagine that, a pickup you can't "pound out" a dent.

That's not true. I know the owner of a Ford dealer here in town and he's one of the largest truck dealers in the state. I've specifically asked him about those aluminum bodies and what he's told me is they repair them just like they would steel bodies. In most cases it's easier because Ford has made it easier to replace panels than on the previous generation trucks, so many times, the job is faster and at a better level of quality than pounding out a fender or door, filling it, sanding it down and repeating that process over and over.

This is just like when people found out Porsche was gluing 991's together. It was all gloom and doom but after a while they found out it was easier, quicker and better level of quality once the car was repaired. Now, cars that sometimes were totaled in the past, are now fixable.