More Comments From Patrick Byrne Regarding Sto’s...(eliocoin)...

[mkiker2089]

The ATVM based their decision after extensively reviewing Elio’s business plan...and their ability to repay the loan...

None of us on this forum will ever be privy to the financial information Elio presented to the ATVM...

Bottom line...it would be very hard to second guess the ATVM decision without scrutinizing Elio’s application...and Elio’s paperwork will never be public domain...

Not really, we can look for a pattern of rejections to similar companies. The ATVM program never really worked. I'm not sure it was meant to.

Then again many people still think Paul Elio was on Shark Tank and many other strange things. None of it matters now. The ATVM program failed because it had no clear guidelines and therefor no one really benefited from it. Thus we are stuck with the same majors in place and Detroit still losing out to Japan.

If they (US Government) want to help without investing in Elio they could put the same rebates towards high efficiency vehicles that they did for hybrids. Put a 1-2k grant towards purchases of any of the 3 wheelers coming out. No one need apply for a loan, no risk taken. It won't happen, but it would be nice.

 

[Thomas Malkin]

My thoughts exactly, for me it's been four years of "a little longer"., and for many others, even longer than "a little longer" :-)

I want the autocycle (I keep saying autocar, sorry) to roll off a line just to see, once, a bloody win for a good guy, not to mention all the people who worked so hard to get such a sane thing made. This, this that happened with the ATVM thing, that is what happens when no one is driving the damned government. No one seems to be able to control them, hell, we can't even see who they are - they don't want comment and they don't want communication.

 

[Thomas Malkin]

Not really, we can look for a pattern of rejections to similar companies. The ATVM program never really worked. I'm not sure it was meant to.

Then again many people still think Paul Elio was on Shark Tank and many other strange things. None of it matters now. The ATVM program failed because it had no clear guidelines and therefor no one really benefited from it. Thus we are stuck with the same majors in place and Detroit still losing out to Japan.

If they (US Government) want to help without investing in Elio they could put the same rebates towards high efficiency vehicles that they did for hybrids. Put a 1-2k grant towards purchases of any of the 3 wheelers coming out. No one need apply for a loan, no risk taken. It won't happen, but it would be nice.

Well said.

 

[FC]

Seems like ATVM program is working very well. As a jobs program for bureaucrats.

 

[RSchneider]

ATVM loan not approved:
https://www.businesswire.com/news/h.../Carbon-Motors-Announces-ATVM-Loan-Caught-DOE
ATVM loan not approved:
http://www.heraldbulletin.com/news/business/bright-automotive-calls-it-quits/article_94c92dfa-0702-56eb-ba59-3675bc82164a.html

These two examples were given because they were applied around the same time at ATVM loan #1 from Elio. Since ATVM loan #1 from Elio was rejected, Elio went for ATVM loan #2 in 2014. So, anyone having hope for that loan, never did any research thus they blame the program for being unfair to Elio Motors but when it was known before that it was a long shot. Don't put all of your eggs in the basket that provided broken eggs for you in the first place.

 

[Sega]

Thomas Malkin. If you rely on the government to start your company, you probably wont succeed.

Stop blaming the government for Elio not being on the road.

 

[ElioWallSteet]

The lack of a ATVM loan for Elio Motor is no longer relevant...just water under the bridge...

Elio paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to lobbying firm to assist in processing the ATVM paperwork...Elio had to know what their chances of approval were...obviously they didn’t qualify...

End of story...time to move on...

 

[Thomas Malkin]

ATVM loan not approved:
https://www.businesswire.com/news/h.../Carbon-Motors-Announces-ATVM-Loan-Caught-DOE
ATVM loan not approved:
http://www.heraldbulletin.com/news/...cle_94c92dfa-0702-56eb-ba59-3675bc82164a.html

These two examples were given because they were applied around the same time at ATVM loan #1 from Elio. Since ATVM loan #1 from Elio was rejected, Elio went for ATVM loan #2 in 2014. So, anyone having hope for that loan, never did any research thus they blame the program for being unfair to Elio Motors but when it was known before that it was a long shot. Don't put all of your eggs in the basket that provided broken eggs for you in the first place.

The thing about the alt car startups such a Elio, Aptera, and Carbon, is that there aren't any other baskets. Investors can make more money playing derivatives casinos than if they put their money into low volume low-to-no profit startups. Elio mentioned this ruefully years ago in an interview after he'd spent a long while shopping his investment around. I concur from long observation.

The ATVM loan wasn't about what whatever the admins think they are about now. It wasn't an investment portfolio that was supposed to deliver adequate returns. The ATVM loans were to give a chance to tech that investors were never gonna be interested in, tech to reduce auto pollution. As Solyndra burned the alt energy loan programs (due to China dumping solar panels, a concept the Republicans dismissed at the time), the ATVM people simply stopped loaning to avoid any controversy. Ars Technica covered this well (a unique report indeed) a few months back. Politically, they have no motivation to make any loans because they personally will be hauled before a congressional committee if a loan loses money. So they do nothing, and can transparently claim Elio can't satisfy the requirements. As they establish those requirements as they see fit dynamically, literally from month to month, they can keep moving the goal posts. AS Elio posted in June 2016, they added a new requirement: confirmed purchases. Not a specific number; they left that to future negotiation! There is no way to satisfy a loan officer that is acting in hostile bad faith. The requirements now boil down to: we'll lend you ATVM monies if you prove you have enough money not to need a loan.

Back to point. Aptera, Eio, all the others spent enormous funds and energy to get to a point that they could get loans that were established specifically for them. No other way to get such investment. There is no management magic, no MBA trick, that can make 300 million appear in the coffers of a small car startup. No one wants to invest in such a low-no profit startup. It is not the fault of these companies that the rug was yanked out from under.

Now we are looking at a sea of gas-chugging SUVs and trucks, ten years later. And the price of oil is rocketing up. We've been screwed.

 

[Sweet Leilani]

Now we are looking at a sea of gas-chugging SUVs and trucks, ten years later. And the price of oil is rocketing up. We've been screwed.

This obviously is a great time for an Elio. Government loans won't be necessary with everyone desperate for a cheap vehicle to provide relief from almost $4 gas already on the island. So stupid... they buy their big SUV & trucks when gas was under $3. Hurry up already with the Eliocoin... I'm to tired to hele on the motorcycle with my surfboard everyday I don't have to go work.

 

[wizard of ahs]

Not really, we can look for a pattern of rejections to similar companies. The ATVM program never really worked. I'm not sure it was meant to.

Then again many people still think Paul Elio was on Shark Tank and many other strange things. None of it matters now. The ATVM program failed because it had no clear guidelines and therefor no one really benefited from it. Thus we are stuck with the same majors in place and Detroit still losing out to Japan.

If they (US Government) want to help without investing in Elio they could put the same rebates towards high efficiency vehicles that they did for hybrids. Put a 1-2k grant towards purchases of any of the 3 wheelers coming out. No one need apply for a loan, no risk taken. It won't happen, but it would be nice.

Exactly.....NO ATVM loans have been let since 2010 !!