1/15/2014 - Ksla - Elio Motors Announces Delay, Production Expected To Start In 2016

[Smitty901]

Here is how it works in the real world. High level Manager missed the dead line on a project by 4 hours. with in 30 minutes of missing that dead line he was on a conference call. He was being told to his services were no longer needed. No one wanted to hear any excuses or reasons. Cut and dry dead line was here you missed it get out.

 

[Ekh]

[QUOTE="goofyone, post: 81843, member: 531"
As I have repeated many times EM needs to get that equipment sold off so they can use those funds to push forward on the engine and vehicle development programs. Having a vehicle in final pre-production testing would be a key distinction which really would separate EM over the vast majority of start-up vehicle manufacturers as those only rarely move beyond the concept or the developmental prototype stages which is where EM is now with the P4.[/QUOTE]

We are of like mind about this. I don't know how hard it would be to do this (exhaust routing being the biggie, probably), but I think they would gain traction by getting their new engine into the P4 as soon as they think it's half way safe, then road and track test it for a month. Publicize the results. THEN do the run-to-failure testing. Video all of it. Pray the engine doesn't bust prematurely!

This would be a gamble, but they need to instill confidence. Nothing does that like seeing a car actually getting 84mpg, actually handling well on a track. Probably too risky, but heck, it it were I, I'd let the Top Gear people (the brits, not the American buffoons) come over and ring it out a bit ... but then, it's not my car and only a little of my money.

What doing something like that would say, symbolically, is that the company has absolute confidence in their product, enough to take a huge risk -- and investors would get the message. There would also be a ton more PR than they're getting now from the Tour. Worth interrupting it. But the downside risk of a public failure is very great. Worth it?

On a side note, here's a minor disconnect that's been bothering me. We've been told that the engine has been "on the dyno" for more than a month. Now we're told that it will be on the dyno Jan 28 and 29 (presumably, it will be running!) Yet now there's this big "first official start" ceremony. Either the thing's been running (after all the dry testing and fluid leak detection testing) or it hasn't. I do realize the "official start" actually is only a symbol -- but by now they must have a pretty good idea of how this beast behaves.

What do you think / know about this idea?

 

[goofyone]

We are of like mind about this. I don't know how hard it would be to do this (exhaust routing being the biggie, probably), but I think they would gain traction by getting their new engine into the P4 as soon as they think it's half way safe, then road and track test it for a month. Publicize the results. THEN do the run-to-failure testing. Video all of it. Pray the engine doesn't bust prematurely!

This would be a gamble, but they need to instill confidence. Nothing does that like seeing a car actually getting 84mpg, actually handling well on a track. Probably too risky, but heck, it it were I, I'd let the Top Gear people (the brits, not the American buffoons) come over and ring it out a bit ... but then, it's not my car and only a little of my money.

I believe doing a refurb on the P4 including the new engine is actually the plan however it is planned for after the engine is cleared by IAV and we still do not know when that will happen. Hopefully we will find out more details at the engine unveiling and official 'first start' on February 6.

 

[Gas-Powered Awesome]

Here is how it works in the real world. High level Manager missed the dead line on a project by 4 hours. with in 30 minutes of missing that dead line he was on a conference call. He was being told to his services were no longer needed. No one wanted to hear any excuses or reasons. Cut and dry dead line was here you missed it get out.

Smitty, I'm not sure what "real world" you live in, but I wish I lived there.

The real world I live in doesn't work that way. At the company I work for high-level managers missed our deadlines by months, made bad decisions that sent our costs skyrocketing, and missed our revenue goals by millions. So they were told to tell their subordinates their services were no longer needed. No excuses or reasons, just fire the people that do the work and didn't make the mistakes. Cut and dried they want their bonuses so the employees ("expenses") have to get out. A few dozen people don't have jobs as of yesterday because high level managers who still have their jobs missed the deadline.

 

[JEBar]

We are of like mind about this. I don't know how hard it would be to do this (exhaust routing being the biggie, probably), but I think they would gain traction by getting their new engine into the P4 as soon as they think it's half way safe, then road and track test it for a month. Publicize the results. THEN do the run-to-failure testing. Video all of it. Pray the engine doesn't bust prematurely!

This would be a gamble, but they need to instill confidence. Nothing does that like seeing a car actually getting 84mpg, actually handling well on a track. Probably too risky, but heck, it it were I, I'd let the Top Gear people (the brits, not the American buffoons) come over and ring it out a bit ... but then, it's not my car and only a little of my money.

What do you think / know about this idea?

I agree that it would be in their best interest to publicize some major positives .... seeing the P4, powered by the IAV engine, on a track would be a powerful image .... that said, Paul has set the stage with is lack of funding statement .... consequently, EM has to show a verifiable progression of putting funds in place .... having a proven vehicle means nothing if you don't have the resources to produce it .... I really don't understand the $240 million more ..... don't doubt it, just don't understand it .... a while back they were using a figure like that as what it would take to fund the entire project

 

[aknaten]

 

[pistonboy]

One of the schools I attended had a machine for testing an engine, that had been donated by one of the major auto manufacturers. It not only measured the running engine characteristics, but it also had an electric motor for spinning the non running engine. (this has been mentioned before) What I was surprised about, was that almost half of the tests were performed with the testing machine spinning the non running engine. That constituted a very large part of the testing.

Therefore, if the testing done on the elio engine is with it not running, it is still a major portion of the testing being accomplished.

P.S. I was a professional student for several years. I don’t recommend it. The pay is terrible.

 

[John Painter]

One of the schools I attended had a machine for testing an engine, that had been donated by one of the major auto manufacturers. It not only measured the running engine characteristics, but it also had an electric motor for spinning the non running engine. (this has been mentioned before) What I was surprised about, was that almost half of the tests were performed with the testing machine spinning the non running engine. That constituted a very large part of the testing.

Therefore, if the testing done on the elio engine is with it not running, it is still a major portion of the testing being accomplished.

P.S. I was a professional student for several years. I don’t recommend it. The pay is terrible.

Of course that engine has been spun and they already know there's something good about it which is why they're giddy with it despite production funding woes. Note, Elio has been very careful to say the remaining capital he needs is for production, not development, testing or anything else, that means he's got that where he wants it. Production capital is when you have massive amounts going out because you actually have production expenses like employee's etc but don't yet have positive cashflow from sales. I'm a professional student too, ABD and the pay does suck.

 

[imageon]

After reading a lot of this and the letter from Paul.
The suddenniss of the announcement.
I think what has happened is a major investor had unexpectlly pulled out. Just a guess.
Would explain a lot though.
MK

 

[TexasElio]

FYI.. In the investment world a "private placement" is a private stock offering. This is somewhat like going public with an IPO except it is much less expensive and allows EM some level of control over who is purchasing their stock. These agencies specialize in marketing these kind of investments to certain types of investors and investment groups.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_placement

Those of us who have been around a while know that the private placement plan is not new at all but instead has been in the plans all along. This was actually the type of financing Elio Motors had in place but collapsed when EM suffered the long delay in securing the Shreveport plant.

To me it would appear that EM decided to stop waiting for news from the ATVM program and instead work on several parallel paths of funding at one time which is likely the smartest thing to do as they really need production financing to be sorted out this year and the sooner the better.

As I have repeated many times EM needs to get that equipment sold off so they can use those funds to push forward on the engine and vehicle development programs. Having a vehicle in final pre-production testing would be a key distinction which really would separate EM over the vast majority of start-up vehicle manufacturers as those only rarely move beyond the concept or the developmental prototype stages which is where EM is now with the P4.

After 7 years of attempting to obtain financing to further R&D of a "mythical vehicle"...it's probably time to face the obvious reality...

He's already squandered 65 million...and still not a single specification ready prototype has been built ...and yet Mr Elio wants to find investors that will pour another 240 million down the rabbit hole...not very likely!

It time for Mr Elio is start offering refunds to those non-refundable deposit holders who have lost confidence...and wish to have their money returned...

If he truly has any ethic's...the offer to make refunds should start immediately!