10/14/2014 - Desingntrend.com - Elio Motors: More Delays For 84 Mpg Three-wheeler

[Jeff Porter]

Not really. The SCCA and other road-racing organizations looks at the "airbags with a helmet on" issue and determined it's not an issue. I've been in a car, on-track (well, off the track at the time), with a helmet on when the air bags blew and it wasn't a big deal.

Very interesting, thanks for you comments GPA! Let's do a scenario to help me wrap my brain around this...

A driver has a helmet on, in the Elio, the vehicle is one person wide... side air bags deploy in a collision. I would think it's possible for the driver's head to be jerked to one side on impact, then jerked the other way by the air bag on that side. Sort of a whiplash effect from side to side instead of front to back. If that did happen, would it not be severe enough to cause an injury? Are the side air bags not high enough to affect the head?

The designers of the Elio side air bags would probably be designing space for a driver without a helmet. But I'm not knowledgeable about air bags, maybe the space is not critical. And maybe the side bags don't reach the head. Looking forward to your thoughts, thanks!

 

[Jeff Porter]

Here's some research I've done on side airbags, sometimes called "curtains", since they are flat and protect people in the car from the side windows. Moderators, feel free to move this post if it's better served on another thread.

As always, just because it's on the internet, doesn't make it true. But this does seem to have some dependable information.

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/car-driving-safety/safety-regulatory-devices/side-curtain-airbag.htm

"Side curtain airbags are designed to complement traditional airbag systems to create safer vehicles all around. They're currently [at time of this article] optional in the United States, although the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) mandated that all new vehicles must include them to meet more stringent side impact safety standards by 2013"

"Curtain airbags are most often mounted within the headliner above the doors and windows."

"... side curtain airbags were first developed to provide head and neck protection to passengers in side collision crashes, by covering all the windows and the pillar trim."

"... Some curtain airbags are specifically designed to provide protection in a rollover crash ... Rollover protection curtains remain inflated for several seconds while people are being tossed around inside the vehicle, and are deployed with cold helium to maintain their volume for an extended period of time. This feature is most often found on SUVs, which are more prone to rollover incidents because of their higher center of gravity"

"Side curtains are designed to work as a complement to traditional airbags, not as a standalone system."

"Side curtain airbag quantity alone doesn't tell the whole story -- some vehicles will use one airbag to cover all windows whereas others will use a separate airbag for each window."

Good info, but none that gives info as far as a person with a helmet on being at greater risk of neck injury.

 

[Gas-Powered Awesome]

Initially the argument within the SCCA wasn't whether helmets and airbags mixed, but whether closed-face helmets and air bags were bad. At first the SCCA issued a notice in 2004 saying closed-face helmets and air bags were bad, but within a year or so they realized that was dumb and retracted the advisory. Saying helmets are bad with air bags is now like the bad old argument that seat belts are dangerous because it's safer to be thrown from the car. It's just not true.

The race-sanctioning and high-performance driver education (HPDE) organizations I'm aware of all require full-face helmets in all cars - street or race - when on-track, or will require them within the next year or so. Open-face helmets are no longer acceptable.

The track collision I was in was a side-impact that blew the side air bags. They kept my helmeted head from going out the window and likely reduced any whiplash by reducing the total amount of extension my neck experienced. The bag did badly bruise my forearm which was on the armrest. Acted like a giant rubber hose and hurt like heck, but only bruised me. Lessons learned there were: 1) Don't let the student crash! 2) If they are going to crash, get your arm off the arm rest.

Air bags are designed to reduce the deceleration rate of an occupant's head and torso. They generally don't cause an acceleration like you describe, Jeff, exactly because that could cause more damage, helmeted or not.

 

[JEBar]

I googled , using their "news" tab, "elio" and the latest article is about more delays which seemed to be related to the helmut issue.

the only delay that seems to matter (at least to me) right now would be one in the start of production .... with the comments about helmets and licenses, the article also states, "the Elio won't see production until at least the second half of 2015." .... that isn't a delay over the time frame that has been in place for a good while now

Jim

 

[Neal]

Second half of 2015 does not mean more delays. Uninformed writer. This is the same delay we were aware of very early this year.

 

[tonyspumoni]

Thanks all for a terrifically informative thread.

I initially thought that even though helmuts would not be required in California when driving an Elio I would wear one anyway. Head injuries are the most common car accident-related injury (http://www.caraccidentinfo.org/car-accident-basics/common-injuries) and I though wearing a helmet might be an excellent way to mitigate the increased risk. Then I read on the boards that wearing a helmet in an airbag equipped vehicle might be MORE dangerous than not wearing one. Now I'm back to feeling like wearing a helmet might be a good idea.

 

[RUCRAYZE]

Thanks all for a terrifically informative thread.

I initially thought that even though helmuts would not be required in California when driving an Elio I would wear one anyway. Head injuries are the most common car accident-related injury (http://www.caraccidentinfo.org/car-accident-basics/common-injuries) and I though wearing a helmet might be an excellent way to mitigate the increased risk. Then I read on the boards that wearing a helmet in an airbag equipped vehicle might be MORE dangerous than not wearing one. Now I'm back to feeling like wearing a helmet might be a good idea.

wear the helmet when the car is not moving-

 

[OctoberGlory]

As an Elio Addict sometimes I'm jonesing for a 3-wheel fix while I wait for my Elio. Luckily my neighbor can hook me up!

 

[zelio]

As an Elio Addict sometimes I'm jonesing for a 3-wheel fix while I wait for my Elio. Luckily my neighbor can hook me up!

LOL Cute! :-) LOL Z

 

[tonyspumoni]

As an Elio Addict sometimes I'm jonesing for a 3-wheel fix while I wait for my Elio. Luckily my neighbor can hook me up!

Now THAT'S funny!