Newworld
Elio Enthusiast
Not everyone likes a diesel engine, but the enormous fuel savings are beyond doubt very good. I have owned a Jetta wagon for 12 years and no problems. Anyone interested in a diesel engine option?
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A Diesel?
- Thread starter Newworld
- Start date
Charlie G
Elio Addict
If the engine were diesel, I would be even more sold than I already am.
Newworld
Elio Enthusiast
Me too. And the mileage would likely break 100/gallon!
BriansElio
Elio Enthusiast
It'd be an interesting option, see how it stacks up against the gas engine
msmith5150
Elio Addict
- Joined
- May 27, 2014
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I've been a diesel tech for nearly 20 years, while a little diesel in the Elio would be cool, you won't see much a gain in MPG over the 84 they are shooting for out of the gas engine, if any gain at all. 84 mpg out of a simple gas engine is HUGE! The best you see anywhere else right now is what, 40s?
Now, of course if you compare cars today gas vs. diesel in them you see decent gains. But they start in the 20s and 30s on gas, of course you'll see more impressive gains with a diesel. But when you start at 49/84 with gas like the Elio, there isn't much room to improve. I could see maybe squeaking 52/89 out of a little turbo diesel, but when you factor in the added cost of the engine, turbo, CAC, piping and electrical and the fact diesel cost more that gas it wouldn't be worth it.
Now, of course if you compare cars today gas vs. diesel in them you see decent gains. But they start in the 20s and 30s on gas, of course you'll see more impressive gains with a diesel. But when you start at 49/84 with gas like the Elio, there isn't much room to improve. I could see maybe squeaking 52/89 out of a little turbo diesel, but when you factor in the added cost of the engine, turbo, CAC, piping and electrical and the fact diesel cost more that gas it wouldn't be worth it.
Ty
Elio Addict
You are probably right. It would take a long time to recoup that price difference. Diesels are mostly known for their incredible torque and with the Elio being so light, you can only do so much with increasing the torque. Of course, Smart is saying 71mpg in their diesel vs 38mpg in the gas version (diesel not available here)... so, hmm...
Newworld
Elio Enthusiast
Well, here's something to think about: the VW L1. It is similar in shape and gets 262 mpg. I'm told it won't be available in the USA. But how do they get the tremendous mileage with more weight? I'm not a diesel tech whatsoever, but something isn't making sense to me (no better mileage). Comments appreciated.
The problem with the 71 MPG (85 Imperial) is that it is running the European test which is known to deliver numbers much higher than the US EPA test. For example the 38 MPG Smart gas engine is rated in Europe at 55 MPG (65 Imperial) which is a whopping 45% increase. For comparison it is better to compare the relative difference between the two engines in the same market, Europe, and the difference is about 25%. While 25% sounds like a big difference the issue is that in the USA diesel fuel is 10%-15% more expensive so when you combine this with the higher purchase cost you find it takes quite a while to even reach the break even point. The irony is that the more fuel efficient a vehicle is the harder it is to make up this cost difference.
Another major issue is that frankly that Mitsubishi 1.0 liter gas engine in the Smart is actually quite inefficient by itself as modern gas engines are much more efficient than that. A friend of mine just purchased a gas powered Hyundai Elantra which weighs significantly more yet is still rated at 38 highway just like the Smart.
I like diesels however small gas engines have been getting incredibly efficient to the point that the benefits of diesels really start to go away vs smaller gas engines. Gas engines are even starting to get more popular again in Europe as small gas engines have become more efficient with the likes of the three and four cylinder Ford EcoBoosts and GM Ecotec engines, along with similar from other manufacturers, which are cheaper to produce yet deliver plenty of power while maintaining excellent fuel efficient.
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The VW XL1 is an interesting vehicle but it is a plug-in hybrid which is retail priced at €111,000 or about USD $148,000. Plug-in hyrbrids are rated for fuel in a completely different way and frankly the 260 MPG rating is complete BS as it even allow them to recharge the batteries during the test. Just running on the diesel engine this car does get a European rating of 120 US MPG however as I stated above these numbers are greatly inflated vs the US EPA test meaning that this car/engine combo would likely end up receiving a similar US rating to what is expected from the Elio for a lot more money and the VW XL1 is even slower to boot.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_1-litre_car