A Diesel?

[StuartGrant]

I think that Diesel would see pretty good improvements for City numbers, but not highway. If the engine in my Elio ever blows I might swap it out with something like this Kubota D722 I have laying around.

 

[Johnapool]

We rented a little European wagon in Spain, not sure now what make, but it had a diesel engine that was more like a heavy-duty rubber band. While it got great fuel mileage, passing was a death-defying act.

 

[Snick]

We rented a little European wagon in Spain, not sure now what make, but it had a diesel engine that was more like a heavy-duty rubber band. While it got great fuel mileage, passing was a death-defying act.

It must have been an IDI design. Modern, 4-cylinder turbodiesel, direct injected engines pull just as hard as a powerful V-6 gas engine.

Your experience was an anomoly.

 

[Johnapool]

Perhaps you are correct, Snick, but we are talking about neither a powerful v-6 gas nor a 4-cylinder turbodiesel, but a 0.9 litre three cylinder gas engine that might be converted to diesel...I seem to remember GM attempting the idea with disastrous results. Aluminum block, too....

 

[StuartGrant]

I don't think anyone's talking about converting the IAV engine to Diesel, Elio would know better than that. Elio would probably farm out the design to an experienced Diesel manufacturer like Cummins, Kubota, Yanmar or Kohler/Lombardini.

 

[Ty]

I don't think you could convert the 3 cylinder gas to diesel... However, if you compared similar output motors, the diesel would be much smaller though probably the same if not heavier weight.

 

[goofyone]

The biggest problem with a diesel in the Elio has less to do with technology and more to do with the extra cost. The fact of the matter is that the more fuel efficient a vehicle is the harder it is to justify the higher cost of a diesel engine and the 10%-15% higher cost of diesel fuel the USA.

As an example of the math let's say you see a combined average fuel mileage of 60 MPG in the gas powered Elio and drive the average 12,000 to 15,000 miles per year.

12,000 / 60 = 200 gallons of gas per year x $3.30 per gallon = $660 per year in gas
15,000 / 60 = 250 x $3.30 = $825

For the Diesel let's say it does along the lines of the Smart diesel and gets 25% better fuel economy which puts you at 75 MPG

12,000 / 75 = 160 gallons of diesel per year x $3.63 per gallon (10% more than gas) = $580 per year in diesel
15,000 / 75 = 200 x $3.63 = $726

So from my example in the USA you would only save $80-$99 per year with a diesel engine which is 25% more fuel efficient. So even if you can get 25% more economy from a diesel it is still likely buyers would never break even on the extra up front cost of a diesel engine in the Elio.

In reality this also means that some extra goodies people have been asking for which could improve fuel efficiency may not make financial sense either. Items such as a dual-cam four valve per cylinder head, variable valve timing and lift system, and direct-injection may provide this engine with extra fuel efficiency however these are best classified as performance enhancements because the reality is most of these would likely not provide enough of a fuel efficiency boost to pay for their added cost.

 

[Ty]

The biggest problem with a diesel in the Elio has less to do with technology and more to do with the extra cost. The fact of the matter is that the more fuel efficient a vehicle is the harder it is to justify the higher cost of a diesel engine and the 10%-15% higher cost of diesel fuel the USA.

As an example of the math let's say you see a combined average fuel mileage of 60 MPG in the gas powered Elio and drive the average 12,000 to 15,000 miles per year.

12,000 / 60 = 200 gallons of gas per year x $3.30 per gallon = $660 per year in gas
15,000 / 60 = 250 x $3.30 = $825

For the Diesel let's say it does along the lines of the Smart diesel and gets 25% better fuel economy which puts you at 75 MPG

12,000 / 75 = 160 gallons of diesel per year x $3.63 per gallon (10% more than gas) = $580 per year in diesel
15,000 / 75 = 200 x $3.63 = $726

So from my example in the USA you would only save $80-$99 per year with a diesel engine which is 25% more fuel efficient. So even if you can get 25% more economy from a diesel it is still likely buyers would never break even on the extra up front cost of a diesel engine in the Elio.

In reality this also means that some extra goodies people have been asking for which could improve fuel efficiency may not make financial sense either. Items such as a dual-cam four valve per cylinder head, variable valve timing and lift system, and direct-injection may provide this engine with extra fuel efficiency however these are best classified as performance enhancements because the reality is most of these would likely not provide enough of a fuel efficiency boost to pay for their added cost.

You are correct in that it may not make financial sense (and it doesn't, of course). In fact, you are leaving out the added cost of the diesel maintenance. For my truck, 14 quarts of oil and an expensive filter... But, I get close to 15mpg which is a lot better than the 9.5mpg that my anemic V10 gasser got.

However, don't discount the environmental people who look at your example as "I can save the US from having to import 50 gallons worth of fuel per year". They'd have to do some interesting gearing to make use of diesel's massive torque increase though. Plus, diesels tend to really help in start/stop traffic as they have abundant torque to pull you from a stop. I think a diesel would be too complicated/heavy for the Elio but it would be interesting to see a .6L or .7L custom developed diesel in there. Interesting, but not necessarily fiscally viable.

 

[goofyone]

You are correct in that it may not make financial sense (and it doesn't, of course). In fact, you are leaving out the added cost of the diesel maintenance. For my truck, 14 quarts of oil and an expensive filter... But, I get close to 15mpg which is a lot better than the 9.5mpg that my anemic V10 gasser got.

However, don't discount the environmental people who look at your example as "I can save the US from having to import 50 gallons worth of fuel per year". They'd have to do some interesting gearing to make use of diesel's massive torque increase though. Plus, diesels tend to really help in start/stop traffic as they have abundant torque to pull you from a stop. I think a diesel would be too complicated/heavy for the Elio but it would be interesting to see a .6L or .7L custom developed diesel in there. Interesting, but not necessarily fiscally viable.

I completely agree with you! My business owns a diesel pickup and a diesel van we use for towing our trailers so I understand the economics on that end of the scale very well. As the need for more torque increases the advantages of diesel engines really shine. Also as I have always enjoyed cars and engines I also think it would be fun to see, and play around with, a very small diesel however I also understand that when torque is not as important the advantage swings back in favor of the smaller gas engines mostly because the added cost and weight of a diesel is hard to make up when comparing to an already very fuel efficient gas engine.

 

[Ty]

Very true... Now, just for fun...
http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...&mid=279229D307F35A5B496A279229D307F35A5B496A