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All Wheel Drive Elio?

Ty

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http://www.proteanelectric.com/en/

I think there should be some kind of aftermarket in-wheel hub motor that should be easy enough to do. Most of these wheel hub motor companies that work with vehicle sizes are putting out about 100hp each motor. We'd obviously need a single motor and it could be much less powerful. If you put a 25 HP motor in back, it would add 50% more horsepower and not take a lot of battery. Should be fun.
 

Reid3400

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http://www.proteanelectric.com/en/

I think there should be some kind of aftermarket in-wheel hub motor that should be easy enough to do. Most of these wheel hub motor companies that work with vehicle sizes are putting out about 100hp each motor. We'd obviously need a single motor and it could be much less powerful. If you put a 25 HP motor in back, it would add 50% more horsepower and not take a lot of battery. Should be fun.
A 25hp motor can use 18KW per hour or @ $7200 of LIFePO4 batteries.
 

skygazer6033

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If the interest in AWD is added versatility in snow I would go with hydraulic. A small hydraulic pump engine driven through a magnetic clutch powering a hydraulic motor on the swingarm driving the rear wheel with a belt. Much lighter (and probably cheaper) than big honking electric motors, alternators and batteries. It could easily be done. That being said realistically if you REALLY need AWD you REALLY need to stay home.
 

Ian442

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rear wheel steering on an Elio ? No thanks. I have seen rear wheel steering courtesy of the u 2 airplane. front wheels on single strut bicycle style with rear wheels about like oversize wide dumpster tires.
 

Ty

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A 25hp motor can use 18KW per hour or @ $7200 of LIFePO4 batteries.
The hub motor that got my interest was a "retrofit" unit that was developed by a college. They figured the entire system would cost $3000 and be able to be placed on existing cars. It was a 100 hp design.
 

Ty

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CRAZY IDEA TIME
Would a person sitting in the backseat be able to impart enough meaningful power through a bicycle chain type set up to help keep the car traveling at, say, 60MPH? How much actual power will it require to maintain speed and would a person be able to make a noticeable contribution to fuel savings?
 
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Ty

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I've got what I think are some interesting numbers here. (Skip the blue text to skip the math part and get down to the summary)


The formula for Instantaneous Rolling resistance force in ( Newtons ) N is:
F = -Cr * m * g (rolling resistance)
F = Force of rolling resistance ( Newton )
Cr = Coefficient of rolling resistance of LRR
Tires on a smooth road 0.006-0.01
m * g = Total Weight
g =9.8 m / s^2
m = 635 kg for a 1,200 lb Elio with 200 lb of person and gas (not the bean type)
So under good conditions the Instantaneous Rolling resistance = 635*9.8*0.006 = ~37.338 N
1 Watt = 1 Nm/s
37.338N * 13.411 m/s = ~500.74Watts which is about 0.67 horsepower

-------------------

Aerodynamic Drag :
Instantaneous force of drag is:
P = -1/2 * p * V * V * A * Cd
where :
F is the force of drag ( Newton )
p is the density of the Air ( kg/m³ )
V is the velocity of the
[URL='http://www.insightcentral.net/forums/#']car
( meters per unit time )
A is the frontal Area ( Insight = 1.9
Square Meters ) I don't know this number but this is from a Honda Insight which should be close
Cd is the drag coefficient
The air density will change with humidity and temperature as will Cr, but at about...
At +30
degrees C the Density of the air is about 1.164 kg/m³

Instantaneous Aerodynamic drag force:
1/2*1.164*13.411*13.411*.26 = ~27.22 N
1 Watt = 1 Nm/s
27.22* 13.411 = ~365.05 Watts or 0.489 horsepower
[/URL]

So, unless all that math is wrong, it would only take 0.489 + 0.67 horsepower (Aero drag + Rolling resistance force) or 1.16 horsepower to keep the Elio at 30 miles per hour. Consequentially, it would take 4.55 horsepower to maintain 60 mph.

You could get a very mild 3,400 Watt motor to turn that back wheel to maintain speed.

Here's the hub motor ($325 and 39 lbs): http://www.uumotor.com/shop/3500w-electric-scooter-motorcycle-motor-12-inch?cPath=16_24

Here's the battery you'd need for 3 hours of driving (15 lbs total - 6.5" X 3.4" X 5.2" each X 4 = $897 ): http://www.amazon.com/Battery-Tender-BTL35A480C-Lithium-Phosphate/dp/B00F9LPL5E/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1435685610&sr=8-1&keywords=lithium+ion+car+battery

1.44 hours to 1.9 hours which should give you an electric range of 114 miles at 60 mph but since the gas motor will be helping out, that range will be much extended. This "system" is very simple and doesn't charge itself. You'd have to plug it in every day but that isn't much different than other plug-in hybrids. I wonder how hard it would be to set up the electric motor to always push unless the brakes were applied. That way, there would be no controller to worry about and the effect to you, the driver, would just be a little more power (4.55 horsepower is about 9% more) and when cruising down the highway, the thing would use hardly any fuel.

Just the ramblings of a curious mind.
 

Reid3400

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I've got what I think are some interesting numbers here. (Skip the blue text to skip the math part and get down to the summary)


The formula for Instantaneous Rolling resistance force in ( Newtons ) N is:
F = -Cr * m * g (rolling resistance)
F = Force of rolling resistance ( Newton )
Cr = Coefficient of rolling resistance of LRR
Tires on a smooth road 0.006-0.01
m * g = Total Weight
g =9.8 m / s^2
m = 635 kg for a 1,200 lb Elio with 200 lb of person and gas (not the bean type)
So under good conditions the Instantaneous Rolling resistance = 635*9.8*0.006 = ~37.338 N
1 Watt = 1 Nm/s
37.338N * 13.411 m/s = ~500.74Watts which is about 0.67 horsepower

-------------------

Aerodynamic Drag :
Instantaneous force of drag is:
P = -1/2 * p * V * V * A * Cd
where :
F is the force of drag ( Newton )
p is the density of the Air ( kg/m³ )
V is the velocity of the
car ( meters per unit time )
A is the frontal Area ( Insight = 1.9 Square Meters ) I don't know this number but this is from a Honda Insight which should be close
Cd is the drag coefficient
The air density will change with humidity and temperature as will Cr, but at about...
At +30
degrees C the Density of the air is about 1.164 kg/m³

Instantaneous Aerodynamic drag force:
1/2*1.164*13.411*13.411*.26 = ~27.22 N
1 Watt = 1 Nm/s
27.22* 13.411 = ~365.05 Watts or 0.489 horsepower


So, unless all that math is wrong, it would only take 0.489 + 0.67 horsepower (Aero drag + Rolling resistance force) or 1.16 horsepower to keep the Elio at 30 miles per hour. Consequentially, it would take 4.55 horsepower to maintain 60 mph.

You could get a very mild 3,400 Watt motor to turn that back wheel to maintain speed.

Here's the hub motor ($325 and 39 lbs): http://www.uumotor.com/shop/3500w-electric-scooter-motorcycle-motor-12-inch?cPath=16_24

Here's the battery you'd need for 3 hours of driving (15 lbs total - 6.5" X 3.4" X 5.2" each X 4 = $897 ): http://www.amazon.com/Battery-Tender-BTL35A480C-Lithium-Phosphate/dp/B00F9LPL5E/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1435685610&sr=8-1&keywords=lithium+ion+car+battery

1.44 hours to 1.9 hours which should give you an electric range of 114 miles at 60 mph but since the gas motor will be helping out, that range will be much extended. This "system" is very simple and doesn't charge itself. You'd have to plug it in every day but that isn't much different than other plug-in hybrids. I wonder how hard it would be to set up the electric motor to always push unless the brakes were applied. That way, there would be no controller to worry about and the effect to you, the driver, would just be a little more power (4.55 horsepower is about 9% more) and when cruising down the highway, the thing would use hardly any fuel.

Just the ramblings of a curious mind.
Here are some real numbers. My ZAP scooter has a 3KW wheel motor and 20 X 40A LiFePO4 cells which cost @ $2400 together. Not counting the price of the scooter or controller and charger. It will go 50mph for @ 30 minutes or 30mph for @ 60 minutes. It will not push an Elio, downhill with a tailwind.
The battery, 1KW motor, controller on my e-bike imported from China cost $1400, 5 years ago. e-bike will go 30mph for @ 1 hour. Many of my friends have been running electric cars for the past 10+ years. 114 miles at 60mph will cost you $20K in parts, plus the car and the labour to build it. This is not math, but real world experience. For the search challenged; http://www.canev.com/
 
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