Comments From A Mechanical Engineer

[JEBar]

I've been exchanging info about Elio Motors with a good friend who has degrees in both mechanical and electrical engineering .... he's also owned/driven motorcycles for well over 40 years, currently owns 2 nice Harley cruisers .... as a result of me asking him to look into it, he sent the following :

"IMHO it should have been designed to drive the rear wheel and keep the front end light enough to lift one of the front wheels in a hard turn. Put the trunk in the front engine over the rear wheel. With some caution (I could be wrong) I believe this design is going to drive like a square fronted boat. With three wheels something has to shift in a turn. With 4 wheels the weight shifts and the platform remains parallel to the ground. With three wheels the same weight shift causes a lean over the single wheel, you can't fix that so you have to go with it and allow something to roll over. Otherwise you need an acre and a half to make a flat turn without the roll.

Three wheel design = drive the single wheel and allow the front end to take up the roll required to make a turn. Morgan has this right."

I have gone back and looked at every YouTube Elio video that I can find and I haven't seen any which show it in a sharp turn .... in thinking about it, the Elio is designed to be a commuter vehicle which usually doesn't require traversing a slalom course .... that said, I have no doubt that some folks are bound to give it a try .... I'm looking forward to a test drive, hopefully that will be possible next year

Jim

 

[JEBar]

I just received a second note from the fellow mentioned above .... he wants me to be sure to remind him in December when Elio Motors has an event scheduled for Raleigh :

"because I would enjoy that myself. Might get a chance to find out why they reversed the whole three wheel design thinking. BTW, I have always been a fan of the idea of three wheel cars simply because they are not considered cars and don't need $10K worth of safety requirments. They are considered motorcycles and thus only for us crazy people that deserve to die anyway. That kind of thought lines up with my thinking."

Jim
__________________

 

[skygazer6033]

IMHO your friend is in error. The statement that the front should be light enough to lift a wheel in a turn should make turns a real hoot. What do you get when a 3 wheel motorcycle lifts a wheel in a turn? You get a 2 wheel motorcycle that's leaning the wrong way for your intended turn. Forward and low CG coupled with stiff suspension and/ or a stabilizer bar for roll control the Elio's rear tire should break loose long before the front inboard wheel lifts in a turn. I seem to recall .86 lateral G in a turn which is pretty aggresive for an economy car.

 

[JEBar]

interesting .... I'm not qualified to look at the numbers or concepts and have a clue .... it won't be until I put one into a turn that I will be able to figure anything out

Jim

 

[NSTG8R]

IMHO your friend is in error. The statement that the front should be light enough to lift a wheel in a turn should make turns a real hoot. What do you get when a 3 wheel motorcycle lifts a wheel in a turn? You get a 2 wheel motorcycle that's leaning the wrong way for your intended turn. Forward and low CG coupled with stiff suspension and/ or a stabilizer bar for roll control the Elio's rear tire should break loose long before the front inboard wheel lifts in a turn. I seem to recall .86 lateral G in a turn which is pretty aggresive for an economy car.

I'm with skygazer on this one. The weight in the back could create understeer in cornering. I had a VW bug back in the day, and while it got good traction in the snow, it was pretty scary in the slick stuff...kept wanting to go straight! I do remember a video of the P3, I believe, taking a slalom course. I didn't have a sway-bar on it, so there was a little body roll, but for the most part, it seemed pretty agile.

 

[dunkybones]

I just received a second note from the fellow mentioned above .... he wants me to be sure to remind him in December when Elio Motors has an event scheduled for Raleigh :

"because I would enjoy that myself. Might get a chance to find out why they reversed the whole three wheel design thinking. BTW, I have always been a fan of the idea of three wheel cars simply because they are not considered cars and don't need $10K worth of safety requirments. They are considered motorcycles and thus only for us crazy people that deserve to die anyway. That kind of thought lines up with my thinking."

Jim
__________________

There is a video somewhere of the P3 doing a slalom through cones, It looked to be doing okay for a prototype. The few real world reviews of driving the P4 seem to indicate that it handles fine, if not a little rough around the edges because, you know, it is a prototype after all. It will be interesting when, and if, we get a production vehicle, and some real car reviewers get to throw it through its paces.

 

[JEBar]

I do remember a video of the P3, I believe, taking a slalom course. I didn't have a sway-bar on it, so there was a little body roll, but for the most part, it seemed pretty agile.

outstanding .... I do hope that proves to be the case

Jim

 

[Gas-Powered Awesome]

Your friend is wrong. Lifting a wheel is a good idea? Since when is reducing traction by one third a good idea? And driving the rear wheel would make it far more prone to dangerous oversteer in slick conditions. As an engineer, autocrosser, and road-racer, I think they picked the correct drive arrangement.

They had a longer video up before of the P3 doing a slalom, but you can still see it here in the intro montage and briefly in the video. Keep in mind this is also without the anti-sway bar the production model will have:

 

[goldwing06]

I'm with skygazer on this one. The weight in the back could create understeer in cornering. I had a VW bug back in the day, and while it got good traction in the snow, it was pretty scary in the slick stuff...kept wanting to go straight! I do remember a video of the P3, I believe, taking a slalom course. I didn't have a sway-bar on it, so there was a little body roll, but for the most part, it seemed pretty agile.

vw and corvair both had rear suspension that was very poor for performance on a race track but quite adequate for commuting. when the last model of corvair was produced, the rear suspension was completly reengineered to the corvette style of independent parallel arm geometry, and resolving the outside tire tuck. along with this performance enhancment came a higher price. hmmm, we starting to see a snake eating it's tail?

 

[JEBar]

I did find video with a P3 moving through slalom cones .... the slalom part starts at the 1:24 mark

Jim