Electric Elio?

[slinches]

As a Prius owner, I love the city MPG of 53 I get from it. It just makes sense that you can do better with the smaller cross section of the Elio and get the benefits of 84 MPG Hwy/ 90+ MPG City (based on 48 Hwy/53 City on the Prius) and get the extended range of the hybrid eliminating the range problem of the Electric Only route.

I apologize if I, as a newbie keep bring up old topics, but it's new to me.

I doubt the city mileage would be quite that good. I think the Prius already recovers ~80% of the energy it used to accelerate, which is where the bulk of the city mileage gains come from. It seems like the law of diminishing returns would come into play when reducing the weight of a hybrid vehicle with regenerative braking since it could only come by reducing the size of that remaining 20%. If I had to guess, the mileage of a well designed hybrid Elio would be more like 60-65mpg

 

[Sethodine]

I doubt the city mileage would be quite that good. I think the Prius already recovers ~80% of the energy it used to accelerate, which is where the bulk of the city mileage gains come from. It seems like the law of diminishing returns would come into play when reducing the weight of a hybrid vehicle with regenerative braking since it could only come by reducing the size of that remaining 20%. If I had to guess, the mileage of a well designed hybrid Elio would be more like 60-65mpg

Although if it were a pure electric, you would probably be getting over 100 MPGe. (I get about 108 MPGe in my Leaf, and it's a 3000 lb four door!)

 

[slinches]

Yes, definitely over 100MPGe and probably closer to 200 for combined city/hwy. Although I think that would only end up saving me ~$90/yr over a Leaf in electricity costs. The cost to charge EVs is almost negligible in TCO calculations.

 

[Thomas Malkin]

Deja Vu! It was about a year ago, but we hashed over the same concept. Started out with the hub motor, but the extra unsprung weight could possibly cause a handling issue...Enter the idea of a belt-drive motor mounted to the swing-arm pivot area and battery pack mounted in the fuel tank/rear wheel housing area [leaving room for a smaller fuel cell], etc, etc.... It was a good 'brainstorming' session! Love to hear some new perspectives. Sounds like you've put some thought into this.

Not much to add, 'cause everyone is doing such a good job, but I can toss this on:
One company has tech they claim eliminates the unsprung weight disadvantage. They beef up the suspension and add a few doodads, and it works fine. And anyway, *all* existing wheels have unsprung weight - the brakes. We don't think about it. We've engineered around it.

Alternatively, here's my contribution: the hub motor of a wheel is also a brake. That's what regen does, subtracts some kinetic energy and converts it to electricity. Take that to eleven: just let it eat all the motion, and convert it to power - quickly. If the mechnical brakes weigh thirty pounds, one could replace them with thirty pounds of hub motor - and there is no net unsprung weight cost.

 

[Thomas Malkin]

Although if it were a pure electric, you would probably be getting over 100 MPGe. (I get about 108 MPGe in my Leaf, and it's a 3000 lb four door!)

I think a hybrid Elio would get MPGe in the hundreds. It's extremely lightweight and aerodynamic.

 

[Thomas Malkin]

Interesting article from Bloomberg...

http://www.bloomberg.com/features/2016-ev-oil-crisis/

In related news, the Koch brothers have launched an all-out media and PR campaign to retard electric car rollout as much as possible. They see it as a threat to their core business - oil. (That's an actual announcement, and an actual campaign, not a metaphorical one.) I only mention this so that those of you who are interested will be able to note the effects of their little war in the years to come.

 

[Thomas Malkin]

ICE = Internal Combustion Engine. I wouldn't want one that you couldn't just swap the battery at every station [I could see an automated version of this], because when I'm going somewhere I'm not going to wait around for hours, or even 15 mins for a battery to charge.

Well, mitigating factors:
The battery could be tiny, as the car is tiny and lightweight.
You could have lots more battery, if you like - eliminating the engine opens up a bit of space. The e-motor would be the size of a shoebox. So, more distance between charges.
New level 3 chargers will probably drop a top-off time down to one to five minutes. You wouldn't have time to buy a Coke at the power station. Teslas charge to 80% in a quarter hour, but keep in mind that's a half-ton(-ish?) of battery. An Elio would have a one or two hundred pounder.

The old rules are dying. And newer battery tech is bubbling away, and will burst out very soon. In the meantime, we've kinda made it: enough battery and quick charging is here. And prices dropped 35% last year, and the GigaFactory will drop those prices by 50% or so starting next year or the year after, at the latest.

 

[AriLea]

About Hybrid. I have a PriusC, and in the past I had a 2007 Prius. Oddly depending on conditions, I get higher mileage in city or freeway gridlock than on the open highway. But that is in urban Phoenix, which is not like many other US urban areas. Sometimes I can get over 70mpg on the freeway, and sometimes I can't max over 43, again depending on conditions and if I'm supermileing or not. Hardly ever do I get the exact rating of the 'C' at 54mpg.

Driving down a mountain at 70mpg I would get infinite MPG, going back up at 60mph I might get 30mpg. What does that average? 60mpg/65mph. Better than flat land running at 54mpg/55mph.

The 'C' kicks into Electric mode anytime power needed is very minimal. This is 'free' anytime that doesn't exceed what I get out of regen braking. When it exceeds that, then I start to 'pay for it'. If the 'C' power train were put into an Elio (IF it fit), it is very possible I'd tick up over 100mpg. But as I said, this all depend on the driving conditions and the balance of regen baking etc.

If the Elio were given a "properly sized" Hybrid like the Prius, I guarantee it would match how ICE drive responds. That is, if the typical Prius sized car gets 40mpg in ICE, and the Elio gets 84, then since a PriusC is 54, the ElioHybrid would get 113mpg. Again, very much depending on the driving conditions.

And I'd say those places where I could 'tick' the 'C' up over 70,pg, the Elio would likely 'tick' up over 147. It just depends on how much 'free' hybrid driving I'm getting.

 

[floydv]

For an electric Elio, you can take out the side exhaust but keep the bulge, add a matching bulge on the driver's side, and stuff both bulges with the highest energy density batteries you can afford. And stuff a few more in the gas filler tube while you're at it for an emergency limp home mode!

 

[Sethodine]

For an electric Elio, you can take out the side exhaust but keep the bulge, add a matching bulge on the driver's side, and stuff both bulges with the highest energy density batteries you can afford. And stuff a few more in the gas filler tube while you're at it for an emergency limp home mode!

I think the gas filler tube would be where I'd want to put the plug-in for the charge station (assuming we don't want to rebuild any of the body panels to incorperate an alternate hatch for the charger). My Leaf has a little hatch on the nose that pops up to reveal the charge port, and I really like the nose better than the side for this, but the starboard side wouldn't be bad.

As to what to do with the bulge, I think that could be used for incorperating some of the heavy gauge wiring for linking the batteries in the "gas tank" with the batteries and BMS under the hood. That way you don't need to re-wire the actual interior of the car too much.