Elio Erks Me To No End

[Kuda]

Snipped: I think we have a decent shot of doing it. That number isn't made up, we have every single part that's required to make this vehicle, we have 87 percent quoted by part number and 98 percent by dollar value. So we can do this, I have the data to back it up.

An accurate recollection certainly, though I don't see any "Can't or "Won't" in Paul's
explanation.............

 

[John Painter]

An accurate recollection certainly, though I don't see any "Can't or "Won't" in Paul's
explanation.............

Indeed, the guy's a total engineering wonk. That's no guarantee they will be in production or won't be. I do believe after observing his behavior for some time, he sincerely believes he will be producing the vehicle. That anyone else believes, well that's another matter.

 

[JEBar]

How, exactly, did you get to be a 'moderator'? Your attitude seems more vindictive than the poster you are baiting. I like 'balance' in an unknown like Elio. Certainly I want them to succeed ( I want two in my garage) - but Elio isn't doing themselves any favors in either the public's or it's core supporter's (us) eyes.

I'm not a moderator here so to be perfectly clear, I'm not speaking for anyone but myself ..... in the last few days we've had a few new members who have come in from post 1 in an attack mode .... some have openly stated that they anticipate being banned .... some have been banned and rejoined .... to me that indicates a group effort .... I am an administrator/moderator for a large RV'ing forum and from time to time, I have to deal with such folks and lets just say they don't last long .... all I can say is the moderators here are much more patient and tolerant than most ..... I appreciate the job that they do and the service they perform for this community

 

[outsydthebox]

Paul Elio: In all honesty, it's a stretch target. And at full disclosure, we're about $500 over budget today. If we went into production immediately, it would be 81 miles per gallon, and $7300. I don't view it as a failure, and we're working hard to hit our numbers because I think we have a decent shot of doing it. That number isn't made up, we have every single part that's required to make this vehicle, we have 87 percent quoted by part number and 98 percent by dollar value. So we can do this, I have the data to back it up.

I like that you posted some "real" evidence. What I find amusing is that it shows your "statement" in post # 125 to lack any credibility.

This is your "statement" in post # 125:..."what I'm saying is that paul elio has stated that he can't build it. Not now, not with that mpg at that price. He has said that he has the data to back it up."

And adding Paul's statement..."I have the data to back it up."...to your statement (IMO) is despicable.

 

[JEBar]

I like that you posted some "real" evidence. What I find amusing is that it shows your "statement" in post # 125 to lack any credibility.

This is your "statement":...what I'm saying is that paul elio has stated that he can't build it. Not now, not with that mpg at that price. He has said that he has the data to back it up.

from reading his prior post, I've grown convinced that the poster to whom you refer is making a deliberate effort to stir up controversy .... in a different response I stated I didn't believe that he's a troll but I was wrong .... under the guise of asking questions and offering info his real objective is to create discontent

 

[eliothegreat]

I like that you posted some "real" evidence. What I find amusing is that it shows your "statement" in post # 125 to lack any credibility.

This is your "statement" in post # 125:..."what I'm saying is that paul elio has stated that he can't build it. Not now, not with that mpg at that price. He has said that he has the data to back it up."

And adding Paul's statement..."I have the data to back it up."...to your statement (IMO) is despicable.

I'll post the quote again:
Tavarish: I've owned many scooters and have been around motorcycles for quite some time, and I understand that there are different technologies there, which does account for some of the price difference, for example aluminum frames and highly-strung miniaturized race engines on sports bikes. For the Elio, I think the claim is a little lofty. If you had said "This is going to be less than $10,000", it would be a little more palatable, but $6800 seems too good to be true.

Paul Elio: In all honesty, it's a stretch target. And at full disclosure, we're about $500 over budget today. If we went into production immediately, it would be 81 miles per gallon, and $7300. I don't view it as a failure, and we're working hard to hit our numbers because I think we have a decent shot of doing it. That number isn't made up, we have every single part that's required to make this vehicle, we have 87 percent quoted by part number and 98 percent by dollar value. So we can do this, I have the data to back it up.

All the info was in the quote. Paul was asked, clearly "Can you build it for $6800, and will it get 84mpg?" Even if those were not the exact words, if you read the whole interview in context, that was the question. In fact, it took about 3 passes to get a straight answer. Paul's answer, clearly was "No. It would cost $7300 and get 81mpg if we build it now." There is no way you can rationally interpret his answer to mean "Yes. We can build it right now for $6800 and it will get 84mpg."

Most of you are familiar with the latest production delay announcement(s), whether via interview, meeting or email. There is no rational way to interpret the announcement as anything other than "We don't have the money needed, and we cannot meet our planned production date of September 2015." It is true that he positively affirmed that the problem was when, and not if, they would come up with the money and produce the vehicle. It is also quite true from his statements that he can't do it now, nor by September 2015.

It is inconceivable (cue Princess Bride reference) to me that this is even a question. If paul wants to build the vehicle, and I honestly believe he does want to, if he could build it today for $6800 w/84mpg, he would. If he could build it by September, he would. Are you really saying, as you seem to be, that he can do those things, but merely chooses not to?

Would you be any less offended had I used "admitted" or "confessed" or "disclosed", rather that "stated"?

 

[Ekh]

Rick, it's comments like that that make me question my communication skills. What you apparently received was not what I sent. I never said, and did not mean to imply that you had called anyone an idiot or a maniac. I was pointing out a perspective. I am sorry that you thought that I called you a name.

Again, we all tend to think that our point of view is correct, and in the center, because we can almost always find those with opinions on either side of ours.

Nah, at least in terms of Ohio politics, my opinions, which would be centrist in Massachusetts brand me as a raving socialist here in Oho.

 

[Ekh]

I'll post the quote again:
Tavarish: I've owned many scooters and have been around motorcycles for quite some time, and I understand that there are different technologies there, which does account for some of the price difference, for example aluminum frames and highly-strung miniaturized race engines on sports bikes. For the Elio, I think the claim is a little lofty. If you had said "This is going to be less than $10,000", it would be a little more palatable, but $6800 seems too good to be true.

Paul Elio: In all honesty, it's a stretch target. And at full disclosure, we're about $500 over budget today. If we went into production immediately, it would be 81 miles per gallon, and $7300. I don't view it as a failure, and we're working hard to hit our numbers because I think we have a decent shot of doing it. That number isn't made up, we have every single part that's required to make this vehicle, we have 87 percent quoted by part number and 98 percent by dollar value. So we can do this, I have the data to back it up.

All the info was in the quote. Paul was asked, clearly "Can you build it for $6800, and will it get 84mpg?" Even if those were not the exact words, if you read the whole interview in context, that was the question. In fact, it took about 3 passes to get a straight answer. Paul's answer, clearly was "No. It would cost $7300 and get 81mpg if we build it now." There is no way you can rationally interpret his answer to mean "Yes. We can build it right now for $6800 and it will get 84mpg."

Most of you are familiar with the latest production delay announcement(s), whether via interview, meeting or email. There is no rational way to interpret the announcement as anything other than "We don't have the money needed, and we cannot meet our planned production date of September 2015." It is true that he positively affirmed that the problem was when, and not if, they would come up with the money and produce the vehicle. It is also quite true from his statements that he can't do it now, nor by September 2015.

It is inconceivable (cue Princess Bride reference) to me that this is even a question. If paul wants to build the vehicle, and I honestly believe he does want to, if he could build it today for $6800 w/84mpg, he would. If he could build it by September, he would. Are you really saying, as you seem to be, that he can do those things, but merely chooses not to?

Would you be any less offended had I used "admitted" or "confessed" or "disclosed", rather that "stated"?

Anybody want a peanut?

 

[outsydthebox]

I'll post the quote again:

And I will post it again.....Your "statement" (IMO) in post #125 is despicable.

 

[Ekh]

Last I heard, EM is 81 mpg and $400 over cost. That's 3% off on the gas goal, and 5.9% over the cost target ... which despite inflation has remained constant for what is it, 6 years?

If the inflation (which I'll peg at 2% for convenience; it may be a tad higher, especially in the early years) is taken into account, the selling price would now be $7,658 -- which is 858 dollars they are NOT factoring in. So, sports fans, we have a car which SHOULD be $7,658 and, if they can't find the $400 they're over, WILL be between $6,800 and $7,200.

Just what kind of failure is that? None, in my book. And the 3% shortfall in highway mileage is trivial, considering the nearest competitor is 30mpg short of the mark, not just 3!

So quit griping about broken promises. The only promises that have been broken are production start dates, and the engine official start -- which was not Elio's problem. And, as Paul and everybody else at EM says, they're not done squeezing the lemon for that extra bit of cost and extra bit of mileage.

Give it a rest, and hope for the best.

P.S. As of yesterday, the average price for a used car in the United States was $16,800 (Edmunds.com and USA Today). I don't know what the average for 2-seaters is, but I doubt it's $6,800. So the Elio is still the deal of the century -- if you can get one!