Elio Vs Spark Ev

[pete.d]

Once one rides in a Elio on a long trip feeling the bumps and hearing the noise they will go back to long trips in their 50K SUV'S.

I've been on many long trips (over 500 miles) in an Audi A6 (and A4), a Chevy Suburban, a Honda Civic, a Mini, a VW, a Ford pickup, and a Cadillac. The Audis were easily the best overall, but the 3 small cars all had a nicer ride than the Suburban, the Cadillac and the pickup (which was by far the worst of all). The little cars were somewhat lacking in seat comfort and a little noisier, but the wallowing Cadillac and the harsh, jiggly Suburban and pickup were so bad that the smaller cars were much preferable overall. I don't think anyone's ridden any distance in an Elio yet, but it's got to be more like the small cars than the big ones. A firm ride is comfortable as long as it doesn't assault you with harshness, wallow, or jiggle all over the road. The only limitation I see for long trips in an Elio is the limited luggage space: a small trailer (like the motorcycles use) or car-top carrier would remedy that.

 

[AriLea]

Once one rides in a Elio on a long trip feeling the bumps and hearing the noise they will go back to long trips in their 50K SUV'S.

For some that will be true. For Some they won't have a choice due to the requirements for a trip. But a MC is not designed specifically for long trips either and there is any number of clubs, events and individuals who love to do that. The Elio seems likely to have at least as much interest in it as that.

For some the sensation of sitting in the center of gravity out-weights the suspension feel. On a MC you are above the CG. In the Elio your own CG is just about equal with the Elio's. It gives it a sense of oneness.

 

[Mike W]

If the elio gets 60 mpg combined compared to 119 mpg for the spark, whats the better deal? Lets say the spark costs 20k after tax incentive and you drive 12k miles a year. After 3 years, what do you guys think it cost to drive them, when you count depreciation and gas savings.Elio wins in depreciation, but the spark wins in gas savings.

Does the gas savings include the cost of replacing the batteries? I don't know the cost of doing that, but I'm gonna guess it's not cheap!

 

[Mike W]

Does the gas savings include the cost of replacing the batteries? I don't know the cost of doing that, but I'm gonna guess it's not cheap!

Also I'm wondering the range of the Spark? 100-200 miles? That 119mpg sounds good but it only gets you so far. I'll putt putt by as the Spark needs to recharge.

 

[outsydthebox]

Also I'm wondering the range of the Spark? 100-200 miles? That 119mpg sounds good but it only gets you so far. I'll putt putt by as the Spark needs to recharge.

I did a quick search:

"The diminutive Spark EV earned an E.P.A. rating at 119 MPGe, making it officially the most efficient plug-in car on sale in the United States. A 20-plus kWh lithium ion battery provides a likely range of 70 to 80 miles. (Official range is 82 miles.) The battery pack is warrantied for eight years or 100,000 miles."

Good warranty but, still not worth the extra complexity or expense, to me.

 

[2.ooohhh]

Also I'm wondering the range of the Spark? 100-200 miles? That 119mpg sounds good but it only gets you so far. I'll putt putt by as the Spark needs to recharge.

If you push 'em you won't have to wait to "putt-putt" by. ALL the EVs I've driven have had dramatic range drops when pushed hard and even the best of them take a half hour min. to charge to 80%.(only if there is a level 3 charger available) We had a Tesla roadster owner try and do a charity poker run with our sports car club(only 110 miles total) and before we got 3 stops in his battery was at 15%. The rest of us made a fuel stop shortly after but even filling up a dozen cars with chatting and restroom breaks took less than 20 min.

EVs are only a great vehicle in a very limited use case. Outside that they are strictly a novelty for those who want to feel like they are saving the planet.

 

[TJ Hue]

The only EV that I consider worth buying at this time is the Tesla, and lets face it with Tesla's price.... ELIO WINS

 

[AriLea]

Does the gas savings include the cost of replacing the batteries? I don't know the cost of doing that, but I'm gonna guess it's not cheap!

Yes, there is the cost of the vehicle to operate and then there is the cost to society. It's much easier to talk at the level of benefit to an individual, but even there, the cost to purchase and the system life isn't always computed very well. Therefore the quality of the arguments suffer. It gets much more divisive when social costs are argued.

For my own individual benefit, I usually figure the cost to purchase as what I'd pay per month if I took out a loan. Most people figure that cost as a flat rate over the life of the vehicle, i.e when the battery pack dies out.

(ICE = Internal Combustion Engine)

Most inclusive calculations with all costs involved find an EV with very reasonable range cost more per mile than ICE. While the mpgE itself is opposite, will be about double of a similar ICE mpg. But consider, if your pack has half the range, that part has half the cost over the full life of the system.

Then there is operational considerations, like anytime a lead-acid battery is discharged past 50%, it's life expectancy goes down.

Flow batteries are what I would expect would help that time-to-charge issue, if the infrastructure exists for them someday. And also Flow batteries do not have the same battery life-expectancy issue. The replaceable flowing fluid IS the battery. The other EV hardware does, but that's very competitive with ICE drive.

I think it's all moot argument about EV cost competitiveness for the next 5 years at least. But we'll see.

If someone wants to be the vanguard that helps advance EV technology though consumerism, more power to them. I can't afford that kind of philanthropy.

 

[Mike W]

I think the EV batteries aren't quite as bad as I had feared. I read at another Elio forum that battery recycling for EV is about 80% of the batteries can be recycled. Of course that begs the question, what about the last 20%? What is it, how bad is it, how much unrecycled material is the really toxic stuff and where does it go? No transportation system is perfect, we just have to figure out which is less bad and work on improving it.

 

[outsydthebox]

Yes, there is the cost of the vehicle to operate and then there is the cost to society. It's much easier to talk at the level of benefit to an individual, but even there, the cost to purchase and the system life isn't always computed very well. Therefore the quality of the arguments suffer. It gets much more divisive when social costs are argued.

For my own individual benefit, I usually figure the cost to purchase as what I'd pay per month if I took out a loan. Most people figure that cost as a flat rate over the life of the vehicle, i.e when the battery pack dies out.

(ICE = Internal Combustion Engine)

Most inclusive calculations with all costs involved find an EV with very reasonable range cost more per mile than ICE. While the mpgE itself is opposite, will be about double of a similar ICE mpg. But consider, if your pack has half the range, that part has half the cost over the full life of the system.

Then there is operational considerations, like anytime a lead-acid battery is discharged past 50%, it's life expectancy goes down.

Flow batteries are what I would expect would help that time-to-charge issue, if the infrastructure exists for them someday. And also Flow batteries do not have the same battery life-expectancy issue. The replaceable flowing fluid IS the battery. The other EV hardware does, but that's very competitive with ICE drive.

I think it's all moot argument about EV cost competitiveness for the next 5 years at least. But we'll see.

If someone wants to be the vanguard that helps advance EV technology though consumerism, more power to them. I can't afford that kind of philanthropy.

Nice post. You brought up "the cost to society"...This got me thinking of one component that is absolutely crucial to the success of EV, adequate supply of electricity.
A few days ago someone here said, "electricity is not free". As demand for electricity goes up, so will our costs... not just to charge our (or our neighbors) "EV"commuter cars, but also for our homes. I have read that this nations "power grid" is already at its limits and at risk of catastrophic failure. Where I live, power outages are fairly common. I can picture having to call in to work..."Hey boss, I can't make it to work again, my car didn't get charged enough to make the trip."
The last thing I want is a vehicle that is totally dependent on this nations power grid. My 2 cents