Gov't Loans

[Ty]

One reason why solar isn’t taking off that much in the U.S. is that many people only look at the cost side. In other countries many people look at the overall cost combined with the environmental impact. That is a huge difference and makes solar and wind etc. look very good.
Same with the Elio. I don’t care that much about the fuel cost savings of an Elio. I use daily modes of transport that cost me more than a gas guzzling car (for example taxis) and somehow I survive just fine, same when travelling and I have to pay about four times as much at the pump as compared to what I would pay in the U.S.. I want an Elio because 84 mpg is pretty much ground breaking in maximizing how little resources a motor vehicle can use. The fuel cost savings for me are an added bonus, not a necessity.

Btw: the federal tax credit (that’s not the same as picking up 30% of the bill) is set to expire in 2016.

You are correct. In theory, they aren't the same thing. However, it directly knocked 30% off the price of the system that I would have had to make payments on. Further in my spreadsheet, I have the actual loan costs. I would have actually paid $2.13 MORE per month to have solar. I wanted to do it for the environment impact like you mention but I had to have a money savings to sell the idea to my wife. Having a house $15,000 more expensive than when we bought it with no advantage in the market while the housing market here is pretty stale, put the final nail in the coffin.

Another thing to remember for all environmentally friendly people, Solar panels have always required more power to construct than they produce over their life-span. That has started to change though and now they produce more power than they consume. This fact has slowed adoption in the US. It's only been about 5 years since they began producing more than they consumed.

http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2013-04/solar-panels-now-make-more-electricity-they-use


Here, the government says the energy payback is about 4 years now and expects that to drop to 1 year in the future. The energy payback is where you take the amount of electricity produced and subtract the amount of energy it took to construct the panels in the first place.

http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy04osti/35489.pdf

 

[JEBar]

back when Jimmy Carter was president, the government offered a huge tax credit for residential solar installs .... we took advantage of the credit and ended up not paying federal taxes for one full year and a good portion of the next .... this system heated water run through solar panels, on cloudy days there was a wood burning stove built into the 500 gallon holding tank .... the system provided us with heat and hot water .... looking back, even with the tax credit, I wouldn't install it again .... too much work related to burning wood, pump replacements, computer control replacements, sensor replacements, and increased cost for having roof shingles replaced made the system much more trouble than it was worth .... earlier this year we had that system removed and couldn't be happier that it is gone .... granted, the only thing our solar system had in common with systems that make electricity is solar panels on the roof .... I hope the new generation does well .... I believe it will so long as it was with our system, the government pays the bill

 

[WilliamH]

One reason why solar isn’t taking off that much in the U.S. is that many people only look at the cost side. In other countries many people look at the overall cost combined with the environmental impact. That is a huge difference and makes solar and wind etc. look very good.
Same with the Elio. I don’t care that much about the fuel cost savings of an Elio. I use daily modes of transport that cost me more than a gas guzzling car (for example taxis) and somehow I survive just fine, same when travelling and I have to pay about four times as much at the pump as compared to what I would pay in the U.S.. I want an Elio because 84 mpg is pretty much ground breaking in maximizing how little resources a motor vehicle can use. The fuel cost savings for me are an added bonus, not a necessity.

Btw: the federal tax credit (that’s not the same as picking up 30% of the bill) is set to expire in 2016.

........"Btw: the federal tax credit (that’s not the same as picking up 30% of the bill) is set to expire in 2016"............

And once that's gone a lot of people will stop buying the EVs unless they are true believers. And the rest of us can stop subsidizing their over priced vehicles. After all....... How many people want to pay the full price on a $35K car that travels less that 300 miles between charges?

 

['lio]

........"Btw: the federal tax credit (that’s not the same as picking up 30% of the bill) is set to expire in 2016"............

And once that's gone a lot of people will stop buying the EVs unless they are true believers. And the rest of us can stop subsidizing their over priced vehicles. After all....... How many people want to pay the full price on a $35K car that travels less that 300 miles between charges?

EV’s? That tax credit is for renewable energy…

 

[satx]

There's already a bill proposed to extend the renewable energy tax and production credits, but I expect the BigCarbon-owned xxxxxx will block it, as they block everything of value and progress.

 

[Ty]

There's already a bill proposed to extend the renewable energy tax and production credits, but I expect the BigCarbon-owned xxxxxx will block it, as they block everything of value and progress.

Yeah... Do you use name brand foil for that hat? Aren't all the big manufacturers pushing to INCREASE those credits? I know Ford wants to sell more EV/hybrid cars at higher than normal prices (subsidies make them more affordable) so they can keep making profits on less efficient vehicles... why would they be against it? Big oil? Hmm... they'd rather sell less oil for more money than more oil for less money so they shouldn't be against subsidies... I don't see who the "BigCarbon" is.

 

[jdkeats]

There's already a bill proposed to extend the renewable energy tax and production credits, but I expect the BigCarbon-owned xxxxxx will block it, as they block everything of value and progress.

That is certainly the diatribe of the left. Big oil one big conspiracy fighting against the betterment of society. Might as well throw Haliburton in there also.
Oil is the root of all evil, I get it, I just do not buy into it.

Oil dollars in our enemies hands gives them resources to wage war, but if it wasn't oil it would be something else.

We have countered by producing enough fuels that made fuels drop in price and decreased those available dollars.

Wind/alternative energies will not be primary suppliers in the near future. They are at best carry supportive roles only.

 

[DAVID BROWER]

That’s what’s happening in Europe. Germany sells much of the energy it produces to other countries.

THAT MAY BE SO BUT MOST OF IT ISN'T WIND OR SOLAR .

http://theenergycollective.com/robe...ck-germany-does-not-get-half-its-energy-solar

 

[84mpg]

THAT MAY BE SO BUT MOST OF IT ISN'T WIND OR SOLAR .

http://theenergycollective.com/robe...ck-germany-does-not-get-half-its-energy-solar

wow… that chart tells it like it is.

If hi-tech Germany can't do it….. who can? At least in my lifetime.

 

[Elio Amazed]

That is certainly the diatribe of the left. Big oil one big conspiracy fighting against the betterment of society. Might as well throw Haliburton in there also.
Oil is the root of all evil, I get it, I just do not buy into it.

Oil dollars in our enemies hands gives them resources to wage war, but if it wasn't oil it would be something else.

We have countered by producing enough fuels that made fuels drop in price and decreased those available dollars.

Wind/alternative energies will not be primary suppliers in the near future. They are at best carry supportive roles only.

Me thinks you got that next to last part 180 degrees backwards. Research it a little deeper and let me know what you think.
Opec was responsible for the huge drop in oil prices. They held "the" meeting because they were freaking about us utilizing our shale.
The result of that meeting was them abandoning the quota system and flooding the market with oil to try to break the shale industry.
I don't know if it's working or not. I do know, at last glance, that most U.S. 'oil only' shale wells were operating at an overall loss.
If we weren't getting a lot of natural gas with a side of oil, in the current market, there'd be exactly 0 new wells drilled.
It costs considerably more to frack than it does to just pump the black goo out of the ground and then ship it.

Big oil has shareholders they have to answer to. They are looking for maximum profit.
As much as I'd like to, I don't think there's a concious effort to deprive our enemies of their oil dollars.
By government regulations maybe, but certainly not by big oil. Frankly my dear, they don't give a damn.
It's such a tangled up mess of a global economy that big oil deals with our enemies on a daily basis.
That is when there's no embargos and such to get around. Nothing personal, just business.

I can agree with the rest of it for the most part.