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Lets Compare Ecoboost

Discussion in 'Elio Drivetrain' started by MajorXx, Sep 19, 2014.

  1. MajorXx

    MajorXx Elio Aficionado

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    Ford currently produces a 1.0-litre turbocharged in-line three cylinder engine for the EcoBoost family developed at Ford's Dunton Technical Centre in the UK. Production started in April 2012. The 1.0 comes initially in two versions: 74 kW (101 PS; 99 hp) and 88 to 92 kW (120 to 125 PS; 118 to 123 hp). The more powerful version delivers a maximum of 170 N·m (125 lb·ft) from 1,400–4,500 rpm and 200 N·m (148 lb·ft) on overboost, which makes for a broad torque curve when compared to a naturally aspirated gasoline engine .

    At 10% reduction to compare a 1 liter to 0.9 liter we have a possible 107 to 111 hp instead of the 55 predicted.

    I might not meet the 84 mpg but it could be a hell of a lot of fun....
     
  2. Joshua Caldwell

    Joshua Caldwell Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Yup, and it would not at all surprise me to find people who care about acceleration more than economy to be switching this out.
     
  3. goofyone

    goofyone Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Don't forget that the Elio engine is actually detuned. Paul Elio himself has told us that they are planning to sell us software which would allow us to program a more powerful tune. We know from previous engine information that this would be about 65 HP which is just shy of 20% higher output than stock.

    Paul Elio has also stated publicly that they are working with Comau, their plant engineering firm, to leave space on the production line for a turbo upgraded engine. With beefed up internals, a more advanced dual-cam 12-valve cylinder head, and a turbo this engine should easily hit 100 HP. At that rating the Elio engine would likely outperform Ecoboost on a power to weight basis because the Ford engine has a cast iron block and weighs 220 lbs. However the aluminum block Elio engine currently has a stated weight of 'under 100 lbs' and even with the slightly heavier head, beefier internals, and a turbo would likely still weigh about 100 lbs less than the Ford Ecoboost.
     
  4. RKing

    RKing Elio Addict

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    Have to keep in mind the mission of this vehicle. It's not a sports car, never intended to be one, if you want that you will be disappointed in Elio. This is where GM failed on the Fiero. It started as an efficient ,inexpensive commuter car. sound familar? Then someone decide it could be a sporty car with more motor. So then they went down that road a while and put in more motor. Then Chevy felt it threatened the Vet as a performance car... can't have that. What they wound up with was a good idea that got so sidetracked by infighting that it wound up being a confuse little thing with high asperations and short on execution due to wasting tooo much development time and money on excursions down "bunny trails" . Wound up being rushed into production with shortcuts. Iron duke wouldn't clear the rear suspension components so the quick fix was to cutdown the oil pan and reduce oil capacity about a quart. Guess what killed it, run it low on oil ,throw a rod ,set the car on "thermal event" due to oil on manifold. oops.
    As far as putting another engine into the Elio under the shade tree, I think that money would be better spent on a use MG :) and keep the Elio for efficient fun. Just my opinion,hold the flames please :)
    On topic,,, Nice engine, 100HP per liter .. probably cost more as a crate engine that a whole Elio costs ready to roll! HP is nice for marketing and top speed, torque rules everyday driveability. I have little interest in exceeding 100MPH in an Elio (got bikes for that) , so 55HP works for me.
     
  5. goofyone

    goofyone Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Paul Elio and his team are definitely doing things the right way. Unlike what happens out here on the internet, Elio Motors is very focused on their core goals of maximum MPG for minimum $'s while maintaining a very high safety standard and using as much North American content as they reasonably can. Everything else is solely intended as options for those who want to have them.

    This is really the best of all worlds for everyone as those people who need or want a safe and fuel efficient vehicle for the absolute minimum cost will have that and those who want all kinds of options and accessories, as well as eventually more power and sportier handling, will also get what they want while enabling EM and their suppliers to make a little extra money in the process.
     
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  6. Charlie G

    Charlie G Elio Addict

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    If that's true, I wish they would just include 2 profiles in the ECU and put a simple button on the dash to switch between "Eco" and "Sport" mode.
    The engineering and parts required would be so cheap (assuming they're already planning to allow a tweak) and it would be a huge selling point because if both modes are available stock, you can advertise both specs. Quote the 0-60 time, top speed, and torque from sport mode - and the mpg from eco mode.
     
  7. RKing

    RKing Elio Addict

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    Engine calibration is time consuming, 2 calibrations twice as long. Also the 65 HP may not be 50state compliant. OR EPA compliant for that matter. Being a motorcycle streamlines certification but not eliminated.
     
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  8. hawg_ryder

    hawg_ryder Elio Addict

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    Hidy RKing,
    This is not a "flame" but I have to respectfully disagree with you on modest performance mods to the Elio... I think there will be a fair sized segment of owners that want to enhance the performance of the machine... Of course to what degree is another thing altogether! For myself, the software upgrade that G1 mentioned and possibly some suspension upgrades will be a starting point. Until we see the finished production model we can only speculate to it's performance capabilities and how suitable it will be for modifications...

    I remember the Fiero quite well as I was interested in buying one when they came out, but passed because of the 4 cyl. engine... Here's an interesting article with statistics describing the complete evolution of the car... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontiac_Fiero ... Worth the read... Take note of the pix of the custom hot rodded Fiero's engine bay with a Vette LS3 engine installed! (I know that sucker cost more than the car did originally!)

    Now, as for buying an MG, I'll pass... My kid brother had a MG Midget back in the 70's (I'll use it because it's closest to the Elio in specification) and I think the stock, unenhanced Elio would blow it away... Besides, I'd feel safer in the Elio at 100 than the MG! Take a look at the specs and I think you'll agree...
    MG Midget 1500 (1974–80)[edit]
    220px-1976_mg_midget_arp.jpg
    1976 MG Midget 1500
    To meet US federal regulations, large black plastic bumpers (usually called rubber bumpers, despite not actually being rubber) were added to the front and rear and the ride height was increased. The increased ride height affected handling, and an anti-roll bar was added to help with higher centre of gravity. The A-Series engine was replaced by the 1493 cc unit from the
    Triumph Spitfire and a modified Morris Marina gearbox with synchromesh on all four gears. The increased displacement of the new engine was better able to cope with the increasing emission regulations. Although the horsepower ratings were similar (65 bhp – home market) the 1493 cc engine produced more torque. The increased output combined with taller gear ratios resulted in faster acceleration (12 seconds 0–60 compared to 13 for the 1275 cc version) and top speed of just over 100 mph. In the US market British Leyland struggled to keep engine power at acceptable levels, as the engines were loaded with air pumps, EGR valves and catalytic converters to keep up with new US and California exhaust emission control regulations. The home market's dual SU HS4 carbs were swapped for a single Zenith-Stromberg 150 CD4 unit, and the power fell to 50 bhp at 5000 RPM and 67 lb-ft of torque at 2500 RPM. The round rear-wheel arches were now square again, to increase the body strength.[4] The last car was made on 7 December 1979, after 73,899[5] of the last version had been made. The last 500 home-market cars were painted black. A least number of MG Midgets were titled in 1980, and appear as 1980 models.

    I think overall, most owners are going to be happy with the performance and economy of the stock Elio, but those that want to "tweak the beast" a bit are going to be part of this community as well... That's why they make ice cream in all those different flavors! ;)
    Just Sayin'
     
  9. Charlie G

    Charlie G Elio Addict

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    This is why I said "assuming they're already planning to allow a tweak".
    I don't see how a 20% power boost could drop an engine designed for 84MPG below any emissions standard unless it's done VERY poorly.
     
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  10. RKing

    RKing Elio Addict

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    Hey Hawg_rider, I hear you, and no offence tahen. I had a Fiero and rode several/lots miles in a midget in highschool. the MG comment was an attempt at humor. Probably wouldn't fit in one now! Comments on the Fiero come from a coworker who was on the project and involved with the oilpan (he was ignored).The Fiero evolved into a pretty good car by the time they killed it. I really liked the plastic skin.
    Tweeks to the Elio will be fun but dropping an engine with 100 lbs more mass into /onto the Elio's front suspension is a whole nuther world. I remember the Vegas with small blocks. Straight line was sorta OK, a curvy road no fun. Also the additional power broke the next weakest part until there was no vega running gear left. Wound up with 6,000$ in a 300$ vega that handled awful. Everyone's welcome to enjoy their Elio any way they want , thats the nice thing about it at that price point. It can be an interesting base for some builds. My point is an engine swap impacts much more than acceleration. I would love to have the 2 mode tuning button ,but the fact is it probably is not in the cards for the first year due to so many other items that are required to be complete. A distraction to his "mission",but I would not be supprised to see it 2nd year as an option.
    There is only one chance to make a first impression and I don't think they will add any more onto the plate for startup than already promissed. Options on the assembly line create oppurtunities for missassembly. The 2 mode switch requires a connector on the wireing harness that has to be the right length and in the right place. It is only used on the 2 mode option so can be on all harnesses, but the engineering to place it there had to be done and included in the harness drawing and trial runs. Just a switch and some software, but lots of extra work to design and test to validate. Would be nice but adds cost when he has to make every cent count toward the bottom line. Options like the 2 mode help sales when needed to differienciate you from another very similar product by another manufacturer. Nice to be able to speculate and talk about it here. most car companies keep everything "close" until release to curtail too much speculaion. I remember all the concern about meeting all the customers expectations. If those expectations were too "high" no matter how good the product it would fail. OK I wandereed arround enough, sorry the ADD kicks in sometimes :)
     
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