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RKing

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Charlie G , I don't either , but then I don't know. What I do know is it is not a necessary item to build a 6800$ Vehicle that gets 84MPG and meets 5* crash testing. That task is quite daunting in and of itself. I do hope we see it in the long run. There will need to be contiuious upates to keep the product fresh , that would be a nice one! Remember Saturn, a good idea left to starve! I read somewhere that IAV did not design this engine for boost, so for them to be talking about "protecting" for a turbo at assembly there is some thought going into a major REV2 engine program already.
 

Smitty901

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The reason for the ELIO is to get out standing mileage not to keep up with a CanAm spider. If We want a 3 wheeler that gets 40mpg and runs fast they already make two and the cost is a heck of a lot more.
Elio should be reliable low cost transportation not a 1100 pound sports car
 

goofyone

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If that's true, I wish they would just include 2 profiles in the ECU and put a simple button on the dash to switch between "Eco" and "Sport" mode.
The engineering and parts required would be so cheap (assuming they're already planning to allow a tweak) and it would be a huge selling point because if both modes are available stock, you can advertise both specs. Quote the 0-60 time, top speed, and torque from sport mode - and the mpg from eco mode.
Engine calibration is time consuming, 2 calibrations twice as long. Also the 65 HP may not be 50state compliant. OR EPA compliant for that matter. Being a motorcycle streamlines certification but not eliminated.

RKing is correct that it would take longer, cost more, and add more complexity to the assembly process all of which EM wants to avoid at this point or in the case of the assembly process they wish to avoid altogether. As I said earlier Elio Motors first priority is on getting the basic vehicle out there and getting as close as possible to the very high goals they have set for this project while also making sure the vehicle and their assembly process is as future proof as possible.

I do not expect to see the second engine tune until at least six months after the vehicle is in production as I doubt they will even begin seriously working on it until after these cars are rolling down the assembly line. They also very well may offer a dual ECU profile feature as an option in the future however it will likely never be done on the assembly line as EM wants to limit assembly line variations as much as possible as this seriously reduces costs.

... Elio should be reliable low cost transportation not a 1100 pound sports car

Why can't EM do both?

As I said right now EM is very focused on their goals for the base model however they do need to make a profit to stay in business and people will always want more comfort options and/or performance so it makes sense for EM to work with their suppliers to offer a range of options and accessories to offer buyers what they want.

EM has a very interesting way of doing things in that the Shreveport plant will only build base model Elios with the only variation between vehicles being the paint color and the transmission. All options will be installed in a post assembly area with the cost of installation being included in the cost of the option. EM will of course make money on these options however it is actually up to the official suppliers to develop them and bring them to EM for approval and inclusion in the official options catalog.
 

Charlie G

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If We want a 3 wheeler that gets 40mpg and runs fast they already make two and the cost is a heck of a lot more.
That's what I'm saying. If the Elio AS-IS can safely support an alternate engine profile that would have sportier characteristics, offering it as a standard feature would bite into that market too. 90% of my driving is on the highway with cruise control on so I don't care about acceleration, but for the other 10% it sure would be nice to have that little extra oompf.

Edit: Again, i'm not saying they should or that they need to. I'm just observing that being able to quote something like "0-60 in ~7.68" and 84mpg is a selling point, and if their vehicle can already do it - it might be wise to include.
 
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JEBar

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90% of my driving is on the highway with cruise control on so I don't care about acceleration, but for the other 10% it sure would be nice to have that little extra oompf.

agree .... the older I get (and any more I seem to be getting older in a hurry o_O ) the less interest I have in jackrabbit starts at a traffic light .... I don't foresee taking cross country trips in an Elio but I'd love to find out that its ride is such that it would be possible .... every mile we put on an Elio is a mile that doesn't go on one of our other vehicles .... with that being the case, those much more expensive vehicles should last longer

Jim
 

BlioKart

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Don't forget that the Elio engine is actually detuned. Paul Elio himself has told us that they are planning to sell us software which would allow us to program a more powerful tune. We know from previous engine information that this would be about 65 HP which is just shy of 20% higher output than stock.

Paul Elio has also stated publicly that they are working with Comau, their plant engineering firm, to leave space on the production line for a turbo upgraded engine. With beefed up internals, a more advanced dual-cam 12-valve cylinder head, and a turbo this engine should easily hit 100 HP. At that rating the Elio engine would likely outperform Ecoboost on a power to weight basis because the Ford engine has a cast iron block and weighs 220 lbs. However the aluminum block Elio engine currently has a stated weight of 'under 100 lbs' and even with the slightly heavier head, beefier internals, and a turbo would likely still weigh about 100 lbs less than the Ford Ecoboost.

autENG-articleLarge.jpg


Block weighs 52lbs complete engine 215lbs It would be very suited to the elio. Being a Ford guy It would be epic.

How about a Formula Elio?
[Broken External Image]
 

hawg_ryder

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Hey Hawg_rider, I hear you, and no offence tahen. I had a Fiero and rode several/lots miles in a midget in highschool. the MG comment was an attempt at humor. Probably wouldn't fit in one now! Comments on the Fiero come from a coworker who was on the project and involved with the oilpan (he was ignored).The Fiero evolved into a pretty good car by the time they killed it. I really liked the plastic skin.
Tweeks to the Elio will be fun but dropping an engine with 100 lbs more mass into /onto the Elio's front suspension is a whole nuther world. I remember the Vegas with small blocks. Straight line was sorta OK, a curvy road no fun. Also the additional power broke the next weakest part until there was no vega running gear left. Wound up with 6,000$ in a 300$ vega that handled awful. Everyone's welcome to enjoy their Elio any way they want , thats the nice thing about it at that price point. It can be an interesting base for some builds. My point is an engine swap impacts much more than acceleration. I would love to have the 2 mode tuning button ,but the fact is it probably is not in the cards for the first year due to so many other items that are required to be complete. A distraction to his "mission",but I would not be supprised to see it 2nd year as an option.
There is only one chance to make a first impression and I don't think they will add any more onto the plate for startup than already promissed. Options on the assembly line create oppurtunities for missassembly. The 2 mode switch requires a connector on the wireing harness that has to be the right length and in the right place. It is only used on the 2 mode option so can be on all harnesses, but the engineering to place it there had to be done and included in the harness drawing and trial runs. Just a switch and some software, but lots of extra work to design and test to validate. Would be nice but adds cost when he has to make every cent count toward the bottom line. Options like the 2 mode help sales when needed to differienciate you from another very similar product by another manufacturer. Nice to be able to speculate and talk about it here. most car companies keep everything "close" until release to curtail too much speculaion. I remember all the concern about meeting all the customers expectations. If those expectations were too "high" no matter how good the product it would fail. OK I wandereed arround enough, sorry the ADD kicks in sometimes :)

Rking, it's all good man! Honest discussion and kicking ideas back n' forth is what this forum is about... I like to call it "Schemin' n' Dreamin".;) I agree with you completely that dropping a 2x the weight of the IAV motor would be a non starter due to the effects on handling. I've been involved in a project or two like that but as you said they were cars set up for drag racing so turning corners wasn't an issue... BTW... I had a $6000 Vega (75 Cosworth #1687) :cool:
Back to the subject at hand... I guess I envisioned the software tuning upgrade to be along the lines of what the Diesel truck boyz do when they "chip" a motor... Some sort of EEPROM reader/writer that would allow you to download the stock program and store it, then upload the performance program. I guess we'll have to wait n' see what EM comes up with. I'd be interested in a turbo upgrade as well... My main reasoning on this is for cross country touring pulling my Bushtec trailer ( http://www.elioowners.com/threads/towing-the-elio-towing-with-the-elio.334/page-45#post-37070) or maybe a "teardrop" camping trailer designed for motorcycles... The added performance would be a boon and I'd be willing to lose some fuel economy to achieve it... Initially though I'm just interested in getting one so the adventure can begin!!!:D (As I'm sure everyone else is too!)
 

BeerBrewer

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If that's true, I wish they would just include 2 profiles in the ECU and put a simple button on the dash to switch between "Eco" and "Sport" mode.
The engineering and parts required would be so cheap (assuming they're already planning to allow a tweak) and it would be a huge selling point because if both modes are available stock, you can advertise both specs. Quote the 0-60 time, top speed, and torque from sport mode - and the mpg from eco mode.

This is an excellent suggestion!
 
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