New Anti Elio Facebook Group

[John Painter]

WOW I can't believe this!! 14 pages on "lets bash Kathy" Unions, Naysayers, Facebook Pages, Elio Haters & anybody else that gets in our way today! This has to be an all time low! How one person can have free rent in so many people's head!
I wish I still could wear the rah rah Elio hat 24/7 like I did for over a year & a half. All the broken promises/delays have robbed me of that. I'm personally responsible for at least 10 people putting down their hard earned cash on this project. I can't do it anymore.
One person alone isn't going to sabotage Elio. I'm surprised nobody has attacked the negative news media Elio has been attracting lately? Where's Elio?? Where's the promised jobs?? Elio's gonna sink or swim on its own.

Instead of bashing people places & things......Maybe ya ought to take off the blinders and ask yourself why this is happening??. Look at Elio's history?? Past practices?? Is it really ethical for a company to continue to gather reservation money when they can't deliver on the previous 40.000?

No folks I'm not an Elio Naysayer, Elio Hater. I'm just a reservation holder like most here. I just see this company through a different set of glasses than I did a year ago. Still hoping to someday see #684 in my driveway!

I get the frustration, you must have gone in in early 2013. From my perspective I don't think 14 pages out of 2,777 is much devoted to some of the negativity on the web. The issue I had with Kathy was that she was not speaking for herself, but instead said she was speaking for 100's of elderly and disabled reservation holders, not herself, which did not come across as genuine to me. I think early reservation holders from that time period when there was only the "all in" option is problematic for Elio Motors. I know there is a thread where there was an offer to buy peoples place in line, I would be personally interested in that if Elio Motors offered "only" to those first reservation holders who didn't have a "want in" option to buy their place in line (I believe only Elio Motors can authorize exchange of reservations) however I think that might be a practical way for them to address legitimate anxiety of early reservation holders, while still not blowing the system the rest of us knowingly agreed to. If any of the "anti Elio" groups looked for a more sensible solution, I bet more than a few of us would be agreeable, to find a win-win-win solution with them. If that's what their real objective is. Just my thoughts.

 

[Silverbullet]

with your reservation number, you most certainly have been following the company for much longer than I have .... I am curious as to the nature of the 1) broken promises, 2) delays that haven't been explained, 3) your insight on how EM is guaranteed to not deliver on its current 40K + reservations, and lastly 4) why would you want to continue to deal with a company that your feel as you have expressed ..... I'm asking simply because I don't understand

Your making this easy!!
1. Broken promises.....I'll give you one since I'm time limited. The August 2014 Wisconsin tour stop that was cancelled & was promised to be rescheduled......We're still waiting!!

2. Delays??? 2014, 2015, now 2016???? pick one & ask Elio. And lets not forget the Stefanie Lynch debacle that lasted 2 months & was blamed for another 6 month delay. When actually the money wasn't there for the plant anyway.

3. I did not say "guaranteed" you did. I said "can't deliver" The past production delays because of lack of money speak volumes. if they could deliver I'm sure they would be by now. One day they say..."we're not looking for any more investors" then on another........Well you get it. Can you guarantee that EM is gonna make good on its current 40K+?? Thought so.....

4. And why would I not want to continue to follow this company? I have a $1000 non refundable stake into this! I'm hoping to drive #684 someday!

 

[goofyone]

The difference here is that Kathy and this particular page is being intrusive to people's lives. She is aggressively spamming people's personal pages. Threatening to get into people's personal business, etc. Her/their actions go far beyond just being negative. That is why it's being attacked. She can dislike Elio all she wants, i could care less.

The behavior Neal mentioned is exactly what separates Kathy, and a few other extremist naysayers, from annoying trolls and the much larger group of general doubters.

Doubters are frequently interested in the idea of what EM is trying to do however they have a number of concerns about EM as a company and/or if the final vehicle will be able to come close to EM's stated goals. EM supporters and EM doubters generally share many of the same reasons for being interested in EM and also many of the same concerns. The difference between the two groups is the doubters either take a wait and see attitude or believe there are simply too many issues or the issues are too large for EM to overcome on their own. We count a number of doubters among our membership with many of them being members here for a long time.

Trolls come in two groups, malicious and misguided. Both types of trolls tend to create issues by being generally disruptive to the natural flow of discussions and or personal attacks against those who many disagree with their stated positions. Malicious trolls purposely create disruption by purposely rehashing controversial topics and/or personal attacks simply because they enjoy 'stirring the pot' to appease their twisted sense of amusement. Misguided trolls are doubters and/or disillusioned EM supporters who end up becoming trolls and disruptive to conversations because of overly aggressive posting and/or posts constantly repeating the same information over and over again. I label this group 'misguided' because, unlike many of the malicious trolls, they generally do not set out to cause disruption and they believe in what they are posting however they simply take things a bit too far and make themselves annoying disruptions.

The extremist naysayers are the few like Kathy who cross over the line from simply disagreeing with the opinions expressed by others to actively becoming a personal nuisance and/or threat. These people have been actively stalking people online, spamming their targets' unrelated personal and/or business websites and posts, sending threatening messages online, and digging up offline information on people which they use to contact them offline and/or stalk their offline activities.

 

[JEBar]

Your making this easy!!
1. Broken promises.....I'll give you one since I'm time limited. The August 2014 Wisconsin tour stop that was cancelled & was promised to be rescheduled......We're still waiting!!

2. Delays??? 2014, 2015, now 2016???? pick one & ask Elio. And lets not forget the Stefanie Lynch debacle that lasted 2 months & was blamed for another 6 month delay. When actually the money wasn't there for the plant anyway.

3. I did not say "guaranteed" you did. I said "can't deliver" The past production delays because of lack of money speak volumes. if they could deliver I'm sure they would be by now. One day they say..."we're not looking for any more investors" then on another........Well you get it. Can you guarantee that EM is gonna make good on its current 40K+?? Thought so.....

4. And why would I not want to continue to follow this company? I have a $1000 non refundable stake into this! I'm hoping to drive #684 someday!

thanks for taking the time to respond .... I don't know the process for scheduling the tour .... I know that they have had to cancel a few tour stops but have no clue why .... the reason for the delays in the dates they have given have sounded reasonable to me .... I agree that they can't produce 40K units today but disagree that automatically correlates to not being able to do so down the line .... I hope you will be driving your Elio one day, as we all hope to being able to do so .... you most certainly have every right to feel any way about the company that you choose .... I can understand the frustration, in fact, I share some of it .... I can't say the same about the bitterness toward the company but that's just me .... thanks again

 

[eddie66]

thanks for taking the time to respond .... I don't know the process for scheduling the tour .... I know that they have had to cancel a few tour stops but have no clue why .... the reason for the delays in the dates they have given have sounded reasonable to me .... I agree that they can't produce 40K units today but disagree that automatically correlates to not being able to do so down the line .... I hope you will be driving your Elio one day, as we all hope to being able to do so .... you most certainly have every right to feel any way about the company that you choose .... I can understand the frustration, in fact, I share some of it .... I can't say the same about the bitterness toward the company but that's just me .... thanks again

Well stated JEBar

 

[John Painter]

Your making this easy!!
1. Broken promises.....I'll give you one since I'm time limited. The August 2014 Wisconsin tour stop that was cancelled & was promised to be rescheduled......We're still waiting!!

2. Delays??? 2014, 2015, now 2016???? pick one & ask Elio. And lets not forget the Stefanie Lynch debacle that lasted 2 months & was blamed for another 6 month delay. When actually the money wasn't there for the plant anyway.

3. I did not say "guaranteed" you did. I said "can't deliver" The past production delays because of lack of money speak volumes. if they could deliver I'm sure they would be by now. One day they say..."we're not looking for any more investors" then on another........Well you get it. Can you guarantee that EM is gonna make good on its current 40K+?? Thought so.....

4. And why would I not want to continue to follow this company? I have a $1000 non refundable stake into this! I'm hoping to drive #684 someday!

I'm not sure about 1,3,4 but personally I believe Elio had the funds for Shreveport lined up in early 2013 and that Commissioner Lynch's lawsuit did in fact cause a 5 month delay in them gaining access to the plant, that's based on Tweet's I saw and listening and reading between the lines of what Elio Motors was saying. What I speculate about is that they had capital lined up, but that evaporated when they couldn't get into Shreveport on a specified timetable, causing them to scale everything back to adjust to loss of funds while still trying to keep things moving forward.

 

[Rickb]

I'm not sure about 1,3,4 but personally I believe Elio had the funds for Shreveport lined up in early 2013 and that Commissioner Lynch's lawsuit did in fact cause a 5 month delay in them gaining access to the plant, that's based on Tweet's I saw and listening and reading between the lines of what Elio Motors was saying. What I speculate about is that they had capital lined up, but that evaporated when they couldn't get into Shreveport on a specified timetable, causing them to scale everything back to adjust to loss of funds while still trying to keep things moving forward.

We get back into the debate on funding and we choose to believe what we believe. I don't believe Elio had full access to funds in early 2013 but rather had anticipated funding and even counting on funds generated from the sale of equipment once they had access to the plant. I can't blame Stephenie Lynch for being cautious about spending $7.5 Million in public funds.

Paul Elio was also saying he had funding (anticipated funding) to start production without additional sources right up until a few days before this last delay. The lack of credibility regarding funding comes back to haunt me periodically. My hope now is that the next time EM says we have funding it's verifiably in the bank and protoype building/testing becomes a reality along with starting the hiring process for the 1500 EM jobs.

 

[RUCRAYZE]

That's why I try to avoid feeding trolls.
If you don't feed them they starve to death.

I agree, and if you've followed me when we get trolled, I always agree, and then ask a totally off the wall,unrelated factoid question, For which, I take credit for driving Mag44 away!!- it's soooooo much fun reading their lengthy diatribe and a few word response. I miss 'em.

 

[John Painter]

Awww, have a heart (or two) and feed a troll.

 

[WilliamH]

We get back into the debate on funding and we choose to believe what we believe. I don't believe Elio had full access to funds in early 2013 but rather had anticipated funding and even counting on funds generated from the sale of equipment once they had access to the plant. I can't blame Stephenie Lynch for being cautious about spending $7.5 Million in public funds.

Paul Elio was also saying he had funding (anticipated funding) to start production without additional sources right up until a few days before this last delay. The lack of credibility regarding funding comes back to haunt me periodically. My hope now is that the next time EM says we have funding it's verifiably in the bank and protoype building/testing becomes a reality along with starting the hiring process for the 1500 EM jobs.

Call me a cynic, but I don't see major hiring starting much more than 60 days prior to production start.
My logic based on restaurant experience.
We had to have all of the tables / booths setup.
We had to have the bar stocked and the dispensers (soda guns) setup.
We had to have the kitchen layout complete.
(That would be the prep line, the broil line, the fry line, the QC position the soda guns)
We had to have food in all of the freezers.
Then we had to start training people for their jobs. (We brought experienced people in from other stores.)
Then we practiced.
Then we had what was called mock live. (employees had their families in to act as guests)
I realize a car plant is not the same as a restaurant but their are similarities.
Food in the freezers ------ equivalent to parts stocked.
Kitchen layout ---------- equivalent to plant floor
But you wont do a mock live.
It will start up and run.
So 60 days (at most) before run date you will start interviewing.

Incidentally, we used the production "back of house" computer for the hiring process so that the data base was loaded with all of the employees when we started.