News Flash! Jerome Gets His Licks In With Jalopnik!

[Ekh]

GM has 4 gas engines they already use for the Spark, ranging from 67 to 98 hp (the 98 hp unit is for US production).
It seems a reach that a 55hp engine would be attractive for the Spark.


Why would Elio bother GM?

It's complicated

 

[RSchneider]

As for for the engine. All you have to do is look outside the US and you'll find other manufacturers of small 3 cylinder engines. For example. A VW UP! has a 1.0l 3 cylinder that has everything from a NA 60hp unit all the way up to a 118hp turbo DI unit. The 60 hp unit has a combined Euro cycle of 57 mpg and the car starts at $10,600 USD. In Mexico, it starts at $6,760 (it has the 75hp motor). In England, they advertise the $10,960 UP! with their calculation of 68.9 mpg (I don't know England's mpg calculation).

The Elio has to give much better if VW can do it with a similar sized engine that is in a 2 or 4 door hatchback. From what I have read, the IAV unit is not utilizing any technology that is not already in use by other manufacturers at the moment. I'd expect that with using current technology with the current size/weight/aero of the Elio, it'll be better than what VW can get with the UP!. Plus the cost of an Elio should be low since it's much simpler than an UP!.

Only concern I have is when the Elio takes off and they are selling 250K/year, someone like VW will bring over a UP! to the US and price it at around $9K. It already passes Euro 6 emissions and has a 5 star crash rating (at least in Europe). I just wonder of a 84 mpg Elio will compete with a 68mpg UP! that looks like a regular car. When you go to Europe, the UP! us everywhere in the big cities.

 

[Elio Amazed]

If GM wanted to get that building back, how difficult would it be? Suppose they went to Cado parish and local media and said "We have the money to start renovating that building immediately in full force and producing vehicles in a short time, employing many, many people." I wonder how the parish and media would react.

I believe that RACER sold the plant to the Caddo Parish for a mere 7.5 million.
According to RACER'S website, it doesn't look like they bought it back.
There's a big red SOLD designation in the Shreveport listing.
http://www.racertrust.org/Properties/Property_List#la

My understanding is that the ultimate owner of the plant is...
The Industrial Development Board of the Parish of Caddo (IDB).
Also, I'm reading from many sources that IDB leased the plant to IRG.
Also, my understanding is that the sublet agreement is between EM and IRG.

But is it ultimately up to IDB as to who gets turfed? Not that they wouldn't like to at this point.
As I understand it, the only reason IDB hasn't turfed EM and IRG is because of the lease terms.
Yes, jobs were promised. Who exactly does Elio owe a note to? IRG. Not to RACER and not to IDB.

Stu is the President and CEO of IRG and IRG holds a lease on the plant from IDB. Period.
It's my understanding that this is also the only type of relationship Stu Lichter ever had with RACER.

http://www.forward-now.com/2016/09/09/caddy-parish-gave-away-gm-plant/
http://www.industrialrealtygroup.com/management/stuart-lichter
http://www.racertrust.org/About_RACER/About_Us

 

[Ekh]

As for for the engine. All you have to do is look outside the US and you'll find other manufacturers of small 3 cylinder engines. For example. A VW UP! has a 1.0l 3 cylinder that has everything from a NA 60hp unit all the way up to a 118hp turbo DI unit. The 60 hp unit has a combined Euro cycle of 57 mpg and the car starts at $10,600 USD. In Mexico, it starts at $6,760 (it has the 75hp motor). In England, they advertise the $10,960 UP! with their calculation of 68.9 mpg (I don't know England's mpg calculation).

The Elio has to give much better if VW can do it with a similar sized engine that is in a 2 or 4 door hatchback. From what I have read, the IAV unit is not utilizing any technology that is not already in use by other manufacturers at the moment. I'd expect that with using current technology with the current size/weight/aero of the Elio, it'll be better than what VW can get with the UP!. Plus the cost of an Elio should be low since it's much simpler than an UP!.

Only concern I have is when the Elio takes off and they are selling 250K/year, someone like VW will bring over a UP! to the US and price it at around $9K. It already passes Euro 6 emissions and has a 5 star crash rating (at least in Europe). I just wonder of a 84 mpg Elio will compete with a 68mpg UP! that looks like a regular car. When you go to Europe, the UP! us everywhere in the big cities.

The delays in starting manufacturing have in fact created an opportunity for competition to enter the field which as you point out they are doing rapidly. Elio's window to establish and hold Market is getting narrower as time goes by

 

[Ekh]

Wow. Hold on. Wait a minute. Just to clarify.

I believe that RACER sold the plant to the Caddo Parish for a mere 7.5 million.
According to RACER'S website, it doesn't look like they bought it back.
There's a big red SOLD designation in the Shreveport listing.
http://www.racertrust.org/Properties/Property_List#la

My understanding is that the ultimate owner of the plant is...
The Industrial Development Board of the Parish of Caddo (IDB).
Also, I'm reading from many sources that IDB leased the plant to IRG.
Also, my understanding is that the sublet agreement is between EM and IRG.

But is it ultimately up to IDB as to who gets turfed? Not that they wouldn't like to at this point.
As I understand it, the only reason IDB hasn't turfed EM and IRG is because of the lease terms.
Yes, jobs were promised. Who exactly does Elio owe a note to? IRG. Not to RACER and not to IDB.

Stu Lichter is the "chief investor" of RACER Trust?
Aren't we getting our institutions mixed up again?

Stu is the President and CEO of IRG and IRG holds a lease on the plant from IDB. Period.
It's my understanding that this is also the only relationship Stu Lichter ever had with RACER.
The way your statement reads could cause some serious confusion on several levels.

http://www.forward-now.com/2016/09/09/caddy-parish-gave-away-gm-plant/
http://www.industrialrealtygroup.com/management/stuart-lichter
http://www.racertrust.org/About_RACER/About_Us

I had that wrong and stand corrected. I'll delete my post to remove the confusion.

 

[LillyMayPatterson #1685 & #5648]

I couldn't think of a better person than Jerome to have handled it .... hopefully the video will make its way to YouTube

Yea, Pam. But, the little squirt would not have gotten out of there alive.

 

[xtspode]

As for for the engine. All you have to do is look outside the US and you'll find other manufacturers of small 3 cylinder engines. For example. A VW UP! has a 1.0l 3 cylinder that has everything from a NA 60hp unit all the way up to a 118hp turbo DI unit. The 60 hp unit has a combined Euro cycle of 57 mpg and the car starts at $10,600 USD. In Mexico, it starts at $6,760 (it has the 75hp motor). In England, they advertise the $10,960 UP! with their calculation of 68.9 mpg (I don't know England's mpg calculation).

The Elio has to give much better if VW can do it with a similar sized engine that is in a 2 or 4 door hatchback. From what I have read, the IAV unit is not utilizing any technology that is not already in use by other manufacturers at the moment. I'd expect that with using current technology with the current size/weight/aero of the Elio, it'll be better than what VW can get with the UP!. Plus the cost of an Elio should be low since it's much simpler than an UP!.

Only concern I have is when the Elio takes off and they are selling 250K/year, someone like VW will bring over a UP! to the US and price it at around $9K. It already passes Euro 6 emissions and has a 5 star crash rating (at least in Europe). I just wonder of a 84 mpg Elio will compete with a 68mpg UP! that looks like a regular car. When you go to Europe, the UP! us everywhere in the big cities.

The imperial gallon used in England is larger than a US gallon, so the 68 mpg in England is 56.6 mpg in US mpg. That is a significant difference to 84 mpg that Paul and Company is working on.

Go Elio

 

[JEBar]

Yea, Pam. But, the little squirt would not have gotten out of there alive.

good point .... we like her, she took our reservation at a show in Charlotte, NC

 

[McBrew]

GM is in business to make money.
If a bespoke engine meets their
bottom line they will pounce on
it.....all the hard part has been
done, no R&D necessary. I
would love to be in on the
current engine sales negotiations......

Seems like they've used engines from other companies for quite some time -- Suzuki, Daewoo, Toyota, etc.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[pistonboy]

The delays in starting manufacturing have in fact created an opportunity for competition to enter the field which as you point out they are doing rapidly. Elio's window to establish and hold Market is getting narrower as time goes by

This is an extremely good point and something I have worried about myself.

It astonishes me that PE can not find anyone with money who is interested in financing this vehicle. Is it that PE cannot find money, or that he can't find money on his terms, which is him having absolute control? I hope he does not control himself into second place with another car company beating him to the punch.

In the electronic world, it is extremely important to get a product to market and saturate the market completely because that is when most of the profit is made. Once competitors know about the product, they create their own version and now there is competition. In EM case, competitors have known about the Elio for several years.