Regarding Taxes And Incentives

[mkiker2089]

I saw an article about EV affecting road tax. I looked it up and not only does my state not offer a local incentive but they fine an extra 130 a year on top of regular property tax. I get it, the system is designed to function off gas tax but it seems like there must be a better answer. At the very least they could wave the fee for the first year if not give a local incentive. We are trying to save the world from carbon after all.

Elio should slip under that tax as it's only full EVs as far as I know and not just gas saving cars.

There is also a bill to tax bicycle riders. This I fully support. I've always felt that someones hobby should not impede other people's careers. We have to many cyclists clogging up the roads. The least they can do is help pay for them. And don't give me that "they have cars so they pay gas tax" excuse. Let the cyclists pay to have bicycle lanes put on the road and make it illegal to ride where there isn't one. That's way off topic though.

 

[Grumpy Cat]

Saving the world from carbon is a whole box of wax I don't want to get into here.

A number of states are doing a gas tax along with a miles per driven tax. This is not the answer to drive revenue. When you look at when governments have lowered taxes, revenue actually increases. Why? Because more money is in the hands of people to then spend that money. Money gets taxed as it moves around. Yes, money comes in when we get taxed directly (income, property, etc), but that's a one time income.

The reason to tax vehicles is they cause more damage to the road than say a bicycle. Should we also tax people who walk/run on the roads? How do you propose you tax a bicyclist? How do you propose taxing other methods of transportation like by running, horse, etc? How about go carts? I've seen a few people drive them around neighborhoods (roads). How about kids electric cars?

If someone rides a bike to work, that is a choice, so it taking the bus, driving a car, etc. Bike lanes are hardly used and takes valuable car space. If you've ever ridden your bike with traffic, it is dangerous. I can't tell you the times when I've almost been run over because cars do not move over.

 

[RSchneider]

I'm one of those cyclists that clog up the roads and impede peoples careers. So I support taxing cyclists along with others that clog up the roads. This will include; Horses, Amish, Runners, Walkers and Farmers. All of them pay zero road tax and the farmers even have tax free fuel. Around me, there are farmers that drive their trucks and equipment all over the place and they even make a mess out of the roads with the mud they track. I know it's their living but I pay taxes on my car and need to use it to make a living too. The Amish horses poop all over the place and never clean it up. Plus getting around them is a real PIA because they clog the roads and impede my career. Then we need to tax kids playing in the street because I know when I was growing up, I damaged many peoples careers because we took up the street playing baseball and hockey. Each time a car came down the street, we had to stop and clear the way. I know they had to slow down or stop a few times because we just were not fast enough.

As for tax, I pay $35/year for the car license. Then the tax that they put on gas (which PA is the highest in the nation at 58 cents/gal). My i3 so far has paid the $35 and $1.16 in state gas tax over a year. My gas car has paid $35 and $348 in state gas tax. My bicycle has paid $0. Why PA doesn't have a separate tax that is weighted on the miles driven per year is beyond me. It's easy to check due to inspection. As for my bike, I'd pay $35/year to license it. Tracking mileage is impossible though. I just want the people I listed, to pay their tax too.

 

[Rickb]

I'm one of those cyclists that clog up the roads and impede peoples careers. So I support taxing cyclists along with others that clog up the roads. This will include; Horses, Amish, Runners, Walkers and Farmers. All of them pay zero road tax and the farmers even have tax free fuel. Around me, there are farmers that drive their trucks and equipment all over the place and they even make a mess out of the roads with the mud they track. I know it's their living but I pay taxes on my car and need to use it to make a living too. The Amish horses poop all over the place and never clean it up. Plus getting around them is a real PIA because they clog the roads and impede my career. Then we need to tax kids playing in the street because I know when I was growing up, I damaged many peoples careers because we took up the street playing baseball and hockey. Each time a car came down the street, we had to stop and clear the way. I know they had to slow down or stop a few times because we just were not fast enough.

As for tax, I pay $35/year for the car license. Then the tax that they put on gas (which PA is the highest in the nation at 58 cents/gal). My i3 so far has paid the $35 and $1.16 in state gas tax over a year. My gas car has paid $35 and $348 in state gas tax. My bicycle has paid $0. Why PA doesn't have a separate tax that is weighted on the miles driven per year is beyond me. It's easy to check due to inspection. As for my bike, I'd pay $35/year to license it. Tracking mileage is impossible though. I just want the people I listed, to pay their tax too.

You should pull Farmers off your list. AG subsidies and/or tax breaks for Farmers has a positive impact on us all by helping to keep food prices in check. Regarding taxes: Tax the wealthiest 5% that controls 70% of the wealth, rather than giving them added tax breaks. It wouldn’t impact their lifestyles in the slightest while helping to improve the lifestyle of the lowest 95%.

Note: As a future EV owner, I would expect and be happy to pay a ‘Fair Share’ MPGe licensing fee road tax, based on my actual miles driven. The Federal and State EV tax credit incentive programs has accomplished their intended purpose to encourage early adopter sales, develop the tech, and ultimately manufacture affordable vehicles for the masses. It’s likely time to end those programs and put those tax dollars towards maintaining highways and byways.

 

[W. WIllie]

And AMAZON paid "0" taxs this year, due to how the tax laws are written and the loopholes available..

 

[RSchneider]

The thing is, it is coming. More and more states are charging to own an EV. Rightfully so. My i3 uses the road like crazy and the tax is minimal. It's not fair. Same for everyone else. I would still put farmers on the list. If they want to drive a combine on the road, it needs to be licensed and thus it's a tax. i'm only wanting to discuss people and companies that use the road system, pay for it's upkeep. If you don't use it, then you don't pay a tax. When we are all driving our Elios, we will pay less because we will use less gas but the yearly tax is the same. On the other hand, I'd pay way less tax with my i3 and that's not fair because I abuse the road as much as my Elio will.

We are lucky we don't live in Europe because the tax they pay to drive a car is ridiculous as compared to what we pay. Thus people use public transportation and bicycles more often.

 

[Grumpy Cat]

The thing is, it is coming. More and more states are charging to own an EV. Rightfully so. My i3 uses the road like crazy and the tax is minimal. It's not fair. Same for everyone else. I would still put farmers on the list. If they want to drive a combine on the road, it needs to be licensed and thus it's a tax. i'm only wanting to discuss people and companies that use the road system, pay for it's upkeep. If you don't use it, then you don't pay a tax. When we are all driving our Elios, we will pay less because we will use less gas but the yearly tax is the same. On the other hand, I'd pay way less tax with my i3 and that's not fair because I abuse the road as much as my Elio will.

We are lucky we don't live in Europe because the tax they pay to drive a car is ridiculous as compared to what we pay. Thus people use public transportation and bicycles more often.

Isn't the free market wonderful where you can afford nice things rather than having to pay all those taxes?

 

[mkiker2089]

Just a few thoughts
Re the bike tax, I don't care how they enforce it. Not my problem. It was enforced with scooters and small engine vehicles a few months ago and they have almost vanished from the roads. I hope bikes do the same.

I don't buy any of the arguments about why cars alone should pay road tax. My car isn't destroying the road and even people without a car benefit from roads. Roads need to be funded from general funds. I think the only good answer from the future is to remove taxes on the cars and gas and transition roads to be general infrastructure. If it means raising local taxes then many will still save money while others will just have to start paying their share.

Last, people who clog up roads with slow moving devices that can't do the speed limit deserve to get run over. It's 55mph for a reason.

 

[Ty]

Just a few thoughts
Re the bike tax, I don't care how they enforce it. Not my problem. It was enforced with scooters and small engine vehicles a few months ago and they have almost vanished from the roads. I hope bikes do the same.

I don't buy any of the arguments about why cars alone should pay road tax. My car isn't destroying the road and even people without a car benefit from roads. Roads need to be funded from general funds. I think the only good answer from the future is to remove taxes on the cars and gas and transition roads to be general infrastructure. If it means raising local taxes then many will still save money while others will just have to start paying their share.

Last, people who clog up roads with slow moving devices that can't do the speed limit deserve to get run over. It's 55mph for a reason.

Anything with weight that travels on a road damages it a little. Hell, my brother and I, back in Georgia when we were about 12 and 13 would run across really hot blacktop at the campsite we were staying at so that we could see the indents our feet made. Yeah, it was stupid hot and yes, we ran around barefooted. Given time, all asphalt roads develop grooves that must be maintained, signage fades with the sun, electric lights go out... all these things have to be paid for whether or not your car is destroying the road. The average road is replaced every 5 years which basically means that out of every 5 miles of road, one of them is under construction. Someone needs to pay to maintain roads. It should be whoever uses them. Plus, it should be whoever uses it the most. Gas tax works because it is kind of like a mileage based fee. Plus, heavier vehicles (like my truck) get worse gas mileage so they, in turn, cost more to operate on the roads.

When you put electric cars in the mix, there is no tax gathered. If (or when, depending on your outlook) all cars in your state are electric, how will the roads be maintained? There will have to be some kind of tax or toll per mile.

 

[RSchneider]

Look at it this way. The Elio weighs 1350 lbs and with a driver let's say it's 1500 lbs. Driving it 20K miles per year means you are doing a certain amount of wear on the roads. Up until a few years ago, they were with no markings and really dangerous to have on the roads. Now they have blinking lights and reflective tape. Still all painted black which is just wrong.

If I turned Amish tomorrow, then I got a 1.5K horse along with a buggy and my family of 6-10. So I pretty much weigh more than your Elio. Let's say I come in at 2.5K. So, as an Amish, I don't pay road tax.

If I turned Mennonite or Amish, then I ride a bike with a trailer. If you want to experience this, got around the Kutztown PA area and they are all over the place. They have typically a 40 lb old style bike with a home made trailer. They all have lots of clothing thus I'd suspect that adds on the pounds. As I found out, they weight in at about 250 lbs loaded.

As for me and my bike, it's my weight (175 lb) and my bike (18 lb). Add into that, 5 lbs of stuff I bring then I am at 203 lbs.

Trust me those Amish and Mennonites are a real pain and we really need to tax them just like I want to be. Shouls we start a movement to tax all of these things? It's really a hazard and they do tear up the roads.

Top it off. I paid road tax to bring the Amish to my house to build me a deck. I paid the road tax and they got paid in cash.