• Welcome to Elio Owners! Join today, registration is easy!

    You can register using your Google, Facebook, or Twitter account, just click here.

Securities And Exchange Commission Form 1-k - Filing Date: 2016-04-29

slinches

Elio Addict
Joined
Sep 1, 2015
Messages
974
Reaction score
2,033
Location
Phoenix, AZ
I don't see an issue with the profit margins as stated so far. Yes, there's some risk if a major recall happens, but that's what insurance is for and those sorts of things are relatively unlikely to happen on a scale big enough to kill the company anyway. Given that the Elio is using mostly off-the-shelf parts and proven technologies, it's less likely than in a vehicle like a Tesla with all of the high-tech features (the Model X, is a relevant example).
 

bunchathrees

Elio Addict
Joined
Apr 15, 2015
Messages
441
Reaction score
879
Location
Creedmoor, North Carolina
I don't see an issue with the profit margins as stated so far. Yes, there's some risk if a major recall happens, but that's what insurance is for and those sorts of things are relatively unlikely to happen on a scale big enough to kill the company anyway. Given that the Elio is using mostly off-the-shelf parts and proven technologies, it's less likely than in a vehicle like a Tesla with all of the high-tech features (the Model X, is a relevant example).

I largely agree with you. I would be surprised however if Takata survives much longer in its current form.
 

webartist

Elio Aficionado
Joined
Apr 23, 2016
Messages
76
Reaction score
56
Location
Harlem, Ga.
My memory is probably bad and I will try to find that article about Tesla cars costing the stock holder $620,000 each. Does sound absurd. As for an EM profit of only $500 per car, I am surprised someone would build a business model based on perhaps several thousand parts involved in a complicated car build with such a small profit margin at any point during production. A warranty and/or recall issue would negate a $500 profit per car quickly However, I do not have a business head on my shoulders.
 

webartist

Elio Aficionado
Joined
Apr 23, 2016
Messages
76
Reaction score
56
Location
Harlem, Ga.
Do you think the usual EM Friday email will make any reference to the last SEC filing? I expect not at this time . . .I think Paul will need some time to craft a resourceful, uplifting, "forward thinking", encouraging, wishful . . . . . email that has a small amount of encouragement.
 

Marshall

Elio Addict
Joined
Feb 27, 2016
Messages
1,691
Reaction score
2,222
Location
Texas
That big number ($620,000/car) doesn't seem correct. Here is one source which claims the loss is closer to $4000. That may only be for this last year though. Tesla loses HOW MUCH on every car sold?!

Looking at only their liabilities from the latest 8-K (ignoring cash, asset valuation, etc): ($8.2B). They've sold roughly 130,000 cars. That's ($63K)/car - an order of magnitude lower than your quoted number. And while this is technically true, as I stated, it doesn't account for any assets.
Excellent Report. Their loss stems from gearing up for a new model and dividing those costs over existing sales. Those pesky startup costs are included in both TESLA and ELIO filings and simply mixes economics of startups and existing production rather than anticipated production from the investment. Mixing apples and oranges makes a good fruit salad, but it is really a poor financial tool outside of it's use for budgeting cash flow and determining Capital needs.

The cost of both present and future production divided by current production only is silly.
 

John Painter

Elio Addict
Joined
Sep 16, 2014
Messages
1,435
Reaction score
5,188
Location
Lewiston, Maine
My memory is probably bad and I will try to find that article about Tesla cars costing the stock holder $620,000 each. Does sound absurd. As for an EM profit of only $500 per car, I am surprised someone would build a business model based on perhaps several thousand parts involved in a complicated car build with such a small profit margin at any point during production. A warranty and/or recall issue would negate a $500 profit per car quickly However, I do not have a business head on my shoulders.
EM has been saying their profit margin on the base model is approximately $1000, I'm not aware of any EM official saying anything close to $500. I was intrigued to see the BOM included in this recent SEC filing, since Paul Elio had made several references to having over 80% of the cost of parts nailed down, he evidently has more than that. What's not clear to me is even though it's possible to include assembly into BOM, whether EM does their accounting that way, I was curious if anyone here knew if that was possibly how the accounting and materials tracking partner they're using does things?
 

Ekh

Elio Addict
Joined
May 2, 2014
Messages
3,794
Reaction score
9,525
Location
Loveland OH
Do you think the usual EM Friday email will make any reference to the last SEC filing? I expect not at this time . . .I think Paul will need some time to craft a resourceful, uplifting, "forward thinking", encouraging, wishful . . . . . email that has a small amount of encouragement.
Well, they just announced the annual shareholders meeting. A couple of us could go and ask awkward questions, if we wanted to. But I bet dollars to donuts Paul has no idea that could or would happen. These things normally take 15 minutes and nobody attends. but I do think it's legit for a shareholder (s) to attend the meeting and ask "how come our financial burden just went up 72 million bucks? What happened that was so far off the plans you've used until just now?"

that's a legitimate concern cor shareholders. I know it's concerning me! But I don't live near Phoenix, so somebody else has to carry that ball. If anybody cares enough to pursue it.
 

Ekh

Elio Addict
Joined
May 2, 2014
Messages
3,794
Reaction score
9,525
Location
Loveland OH
I don't see an issue with the profit margins as stated so far. Yes, there's some risk if a major recall happens, but that's what insurance is for and those sorts of things are relatively unlikely to happen on a scale big enough to kill the company anyway. Given that the Elio is using mostly off-the-shelf parts and proven technologies, it's less likely than in a vehicle like a Tesla with all of the high-tech features (the Model X, is a relevant example).
Good thing that Takata airbags aren't on the list of "off the shelf parts and proven technologies"! But your basic point is good. Easier availability to parts, lower cost = greater financial safety and lower risk of recalls.
 

Elio Amazed

Elio Addict
Joined
Jun 30, 2014
Messages
3,507
Reaction score
4,630
Yep. There was a front page story in our local paper yesterday about a few million more recalls of inflation devices. :eek:
 

Rob Croson

Elio Addict
Joined
Apr 28, 2015
Messages
1,384
Reaction score
2,279
Location
Ohio
What's not clear to me is even though it's possible to include assembly into BOM, whether EM does their accounting that way, I was curious if anyone here knew if that was possibly how the accounting and materials tracking partner they're using does things?
Just because the system may have the capability to do something, doesn't mean that the capability is implemented in any specific installation of the system. If you wanted to know, then you'd have to ask someone at EM if the published BOM cost includes assembly labor. I would venture to guess that you wouldn't get an answer to that question.
 
Top Bottom