Start Stop System

[Jim H]

In some places of the world with very high population density and very narrow streets in order to save space and not loose your mirror you have to fold the mirrors in when you park, and even occasionally while driving to get through a particularly narrow spot. The problem is virtually non-existent in the US, and even in such population dense areas as Europe and Japan I don't think that much of the population facesv the daunting mirror-folding challenge on a daily basis. I used to live in Berlin where this is regular practice and I never once dreamed of a button to fold the mirror, rather than just (heaven forbid) push it in by HAND.

I lived in Berlin 1977-1980 and loved it. What a great city.

 

[carzes]

I lived in Berlin 1977-1980 and loved it. What a great city.

Berlin was the BEST city I ever experienced in the WORLD! I loved it there. We were lucky for the experience.

 

[Ty]

I lived in Berlin 1977-1980 and loved it. What a great city.

Hey, I'm in Landstuhl right now... went to Köln today... incredible day... and weather... beautiful cathedral. For my military brethren, a trip to Luxembourg Friday... see attached picture.

Edit: Sorry this picture is too blurry to zoom in on. It is General Patton's grave in Luxembourg.

 

[Ekh]

Start/stop systems are very well understood and I doubt it would be very expensive to implement in the Elio. It would help improve the city fuel economy number which is where the aerodynamics don't assist much. I think this is one of those things that may just come down to how close they are to their cost goals vs how much would it take to implement per vehicle.

Nice to have. But "doesn't cost much" when they're already fighting for their $6.800 price probably means "costs too much" ... however beneficial auto start/stop might be.

 

[Ty]

Nice to have. But "doesn't cost much" when they're already fighting for their $6.800 price probably means "costs too much" ... however beneficial auto start/stop might be.

Ford announced theirs costs $295. That would be high if it were just added to the car, of course but what if adding the start-up system negated the need for something else? Let's say that the super efficient injectors were $300 more expensive than standard ones yet yielded similar results as the start-up system?

Just an exercise in option thinking... We have time. Even that cheap of a system would take about 3 years to pay for itself according to the article here:

http://www.edmunds.come/fuel-economy/engine-stop-start-systems-save-fuel-at-low-cost.html

 

[goofyone]

I personally don't expect to see a start/stop system in the first year or two but it is something I can definitely see them adding over time. As has been discussed in this thread the start/stop systems could be implemented in basic form as a software only solution so this is definitely the kind of development which could happen easily over time as they continue to produce vehicles.

 

[carzes]

I drive 110 miles per day on the highway. Many other Elio fans are long commuters, that's why it's an interesting concept. 'cause it could save us a ton of money. A stop/start system means NOTHING to me, or to many others who have a similar commute. If I had to commute three miles in city traffic I would have no interest in Elio, 'cause my commute would not cost me enough to be concerned about. I don't want to pay a single penny for stop/start, so I'd rather not be forced to pay for it.

 

[Brian1362]

How hard/expensive would it be to put a start/stop system in the Elio? I'm talking about the kind that shuts off fuel delivery when you are braking below 5mph or so prior to coming to a stop. You sit at the light with the engine off and the car in first (for the stick, of course). The starter would have to be a little more beefy but not much. When you lift your foot off the brake, the automatic cars would start their motors, the manual transmission version would wait till you hit the gas and at that point, the starter would spin the flywheel, thus the engine, thus the transmission. It would stay engaged just long enough to start the car. The hypermiler guys shut down as they coast to stops already though that's not quite safe as they are driving cars that weigh enough to need more brake boost than the little Elio will require. Hmm.. What do you guys think about a system similar to what I tried to describe? (I know we could probably just use the key and shut it down on our own easy enough...)

VW has this on their non-export vehicles. Seems they would keep it on all, since it is more efficient.

 

[Avards]

VW has this on their non-export vehicles. Seems they would keep it on all, since it is more efficient.

OK, I'm going to display my ignorance. I've never been around a SSS machine. I've lived in the Deep South for most of my life and usually run the air conditioning system in my vehicles about eight months of the year. If the a/c compressor is not electrically powered, I'd suspect that the interior temperature of the vehicle would tend to become rather unpleasant when the engine stops. If the a/c is compressor is electrically powered, I would assume that the battery must be considerably enlarged to support the power demand of both the compressor and the constant restarting of the engine by a starter which probably has to be more robust (weighs more).

Or, if the electrical system of the vehicle is configured in such a manner as to not trigger the automatic shut down of the engine when the a/c is switched on, why carry around the extra weight, and added complexity of systems.

Keep it simple. If a SSS is considered, make it an optional feature. Let those who want such a system select it, and add it.

wr

 

[Ty]

OK, I'm going to display my ignorance. I've never been around a SSS machine. I've lived in the Deep South for most of my life and usually run the air conditioning system in my vehicles about eight months of the year. If the a/c compressor is not electrically powered, I'd suspect that the interior temperature of the vehicle would tend to become rather unpleasant when the engine stops. If the a/c is compressor is electrically powered, I would assume that the battery must be considerably enlarged to support the power demand of both the compressor and the constant restarting of the engine by a starter which probably has to be more robust (weighs more).

Or, if the electrical system of the vehicle is configured in such a manner as to not trigger the automatic shut down of the engine when the a/c is switched on, why carry around the extra weight, and added complexity of systems.

Keep it simple. If a SSS is considered, make it an optional feature. Let those who want such a system select it, and add it.

wr

Good point. And, you are mostly right. But, in most start stop systems, the accessories are electrical so they'd keep running. The battery has to be a bit more robust to keep it going. During extended stops, the engine actually starts back up to save the battery. Mazda actually had a system that cleverly stopped one cylinder in just shy of top dead center position and when you lifted your foot off the brake, would fire that spark plug, kicking the motor backwards building pressure in a cylinder which then fired it around the right way. This starts the car faster then your foot can make it from the brake to the gas... unless you are heel to toeing it... Down South (I'm from Georgia), you'd definitely want the AC to keep running. You don't see many start stop vehicles in the states because the U.S. cycle of testing doesn't favor the system. In other words, the EPA MPG listed on the window wouldn't change much. In Europe (I happen to be in Germany for work this week), a lot of cars have the system. Their test cycle has 40 seconds of idling which favors the start stop system cars. So, the manufacturers make them. The guys I'm here with can't get used to the car's stopping (a Mercedes wagon and a Mini) so they disable the system. I don't mind it. Anyway, actual driving can see between 3.5 - 10% increase in mileage. The cost is about $300 (says Ford) per vehicle.