The Aftermath

[Bookly]

I've read the posts, stating what you did. No supporting info was provided, just more of the "go look for posts".

Here is more from the application document:

The following are just some of the hallmarks of a strong ATVM application:
• Detailed project narrative and plan with key activities and milestones
• Integrated, dynamic financial model, including cash flow, and a strong NPV for the project
• Three years of consolidated financial statements (audited, if available)
• Significant equity funding at the time of application
• Significant, unencumbered collateral, broken down by asset type
• For suppliers, sale agreement for existing (and/or planned) production strengthens the
creditworthiness of the application
•Control over the proposed project site
• Experienced leadership and senior staff with experience directly related to the proposed project
• Strong operating history of the company, parent, and/or subsidiary

Actual document at this link:
https://energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2014/05/f16/ATVM-Program-Application-Overview.pdf

 

[Elio Amazed]

Actually the statement in question was easy to interpret. Suit yourself.

However, even though the DOE states that they consider simulations that use their standard methods satisfaction of claims and due diligence...
Considering that there's no working final pre-production prototype and subsequently no real-world testing and stats...
And that EM's position is something like, "Please grant us approval for the $183M in loan guarantees...
So we can then have a better chance to raise the other $200M from investors"...

If what you're saying is that EM didn't provide the DOE with very good grounds for approving their application in general...

I have to whole-heartedly agree.

 

[Watashiwah]

Like it or not, good decision or bad, let's face it that the ATVM loan ship has sailed off into the sunset. The future of Elio rests in another source of funding. For me there are a few 'take aways' or 'lessons learned,' from this long struggle: Making something smaller and marginally more 'efficient' isn't what the ATVM loan is all about. Our Elio is smaller in that it is a lighter two seater with the pseudo panache of a motorcycle, cool but traffic and parking wise it really isn't even any smaller that any conventional 4 wheeled vehicle. Our Elio has never been demonstrated to be any more efficient thru any testing yet either: There are four to five seater hatchbacks and mini station wagons, many getting upwards of 45 mpg all over the roads, even at best there is no new compelling internal combustion technology in the Elio.

Loans are best made to either people that already have the money or have such a great idea and history that failure is essentially impossible: Let me ask you that if, for whatever it is that you (we, I) find so attractive, cool, fun, different, or environmentally/technologically compelling about the Elio, if as taxpayers, aware of other federal funding and loan debacles, really would want such a loan backed by the American taxpayer?

Paul needs to find an angel investor that is happy with a return limited by Paul's desire to bring a low cost 'people's vehicle' to a new, yet undemonstrated market. We will know pretty soon if he's successful at that. He may not have the 'fight' in him like we all may hope, either. Paul's life, no doubt, has dramatically been changed thru this saga. This next week will be mighty interesting.

 

[Trusting]

It's just like banks. They only want to loan money to people who don't need it...

 

[Donnyboy]

With the ATVM loan probably just a pipe dream at this point, the "home run", full scale production option with 1,500 employees is off the table. Time to go small. This shouldn't be complicated. It's old technology, not a Tesla. We're talking about 3 wheels, one door, and a tiny 3 cylinder engine. Build 10 of them in Paul's garage and put them on a truck to the first 10 reservation holders.

 

[Maurtis]

Or make those 10 production quality test drive units. Even just one! Get the MPG tests done, hand them out to the press for reviews, etc. Pretty much what Sondors is supposedly doing. Making one prototype and take it on a test drive tour to drive up interest and help get the production cash.

 

[Elio Amazed]

Or make those 10 production quality test drive units. Even just one! Get the MPG tests done, hand them out to the press for reviews, etc. Pretty much what Sondors is supposedly doing. Making one prototype and take it on a test drive tour to drive up interest and help get the production cash.

Question is, is it even too late for that?

 

[Earl LaSitis]

I hate to say it but Paul has lost the confidence of the people who invested and believed in what he was trying to do.
Have you noticed the the reservations have stopped and so has new news of what 's going on and coming up about the car.
I think the dream of owing a elio is over and a lot of people got bilked out of their money. We all should have learned a important lesson.

 

[Maurtis]

I hate to say it but Paul has lost the confidence of the people who invested and believed in what he was trying to do.
Have you noticed the the reservations have stopped and so has new news of what 's going on and coming up about the car.
I think the dream of owing a elio is over and a lot of people got bilked out of their money. We all should have learned a important lesson.

Earlier this year Elio said they "furloughed" the touring and engineering teams, so that explains the lack of news and reservations. They are focused on getting funding right now, so no new developments until that happens. The few pop-up showings they did of the E1c were staffed by the remaining executives (but not Paul).

The word "bilked" is an interesting choice. Do you think it was fraud? I think they underestimated costs and got wrapped up over-engineering the prototypes, but I really never felt it was a scam. Poor use of time and money, yes. But if the Elio does reach production, I bet that over-engineering will make for a great ride.

I think they can still pull it out, but I see Paul having to hand CEO reins to someone with experience in the field and staying on as a visionary in order to get funding.

 

[Bookly]

Or make those 10 production quality test drive units. Even just one! Get the MPG tests done, hand them out to the press for reviews, etc. Pretty much what Sondors is supposedly doing. Making one prototype and take it on a test drive tour to drive up interest and help get the production cash.

A year or two that would of worked. $140 million was raised. Why didn't it actually happen?

While the term "scam" gets thrown about, I'll agree that it doesn't suggest intentional fraud. But when you raise that much money and have so little actual product to show for it, a lot of people will assume the worst.