The Elio Engine

[Smitty901]

Clearly the statement "Half the width, double the mileage" was not really meant to be take literally. While it will reduce drag not enough alone to double MPG . As for weigh the old rule was about 400 lbs reduction to get a 1 Mpg in fuel. That of course it not the case now but it still is a larger number.
How the engine use the fuel it has is the number one issue in a car like ELIO.
If the ELIO ever gets into production we will know if it was the right call to build a new one

 

[JEBar]

If the ELIO ever gets into production will we know if it was the right call to build a new one

agree ....

 

[eliothegreat]

Clearly the statement "Half the width, double the mileage" was not really meant to be take literally. While it will reduce drag not enough alone to double MPG . As for weigh the old rule was about 400 lbs reduction to get a 1 Mpg in fuel. That of course it not the case now but it still is a larger number.
How the engine use the fuel it has is the number one issue in a car like ELIO.
If the ELIO ever gets into production we will know if it was the right call to build a new one

You know that. I know that. Perhaps someone should let Paul know that. I've come to realize that almost nothing Paul or Elio Motors says can be taken at face value. That is just one of many of his engineering claims that is mostly sales talk with a large helping of bunk thrown in.

Sort of the point (at least to me) of this whole discussion is that if Elio had chosen to go with an existing powerplant, they would be $100-200M closer to production. By the time they are done with development at IAV, they will have dumped $50-75M or more into the engine. Instead of using existing plant equipment, they will need another $75-$150M or more for equipment to build the engine. The money that they have already spent to get a 2-minute video of the engine would more than have paid for a full fabrication shop, professional-lever car guy fabricators and 25 pre-production prototypes with existing engines, which would now already be close to fully tested.

IMO, even if Elio ever gets to production, at best they will have survived a series of poor decisions. They still talk a good story, and I don't blame any of you for hoping they will make it to production.

 

[CheeseheadEarl]

[*]It's difficult to warranty an engine built entirely by a competitor. That's why it seldom happens.

8. That is one theory. If it costs so much that they cannot afford to go into production, it will be far more expensive in the long run. If there are reliability issues with the IAV unit (the Vega engine would be one example), a small company like Elio will not survive. Nothing would happen to Elio if Ford stopped producing the EcoBoost 1.0L. That's not one of the options being discussed. Though an EcoBoost Elio would be worth considering. Are you saying that Ford has a history of breaking contracts? I was not aware of this. What about Fiat & Hyundai? The rest of Elio's suppliers? Are all successful businesses in the habit of breaking contracts with their customers?

Ford and Navistar come immediately to mind. How did that end?

 

[JEBar]

IMO, even if Elio ever gets to production, at best they will have survived a series of poor decisions. They still talk a good story, and I don't blame any of you for hoping they will make it to production.

simply asking a question .... does this mean you do not

 

[skygazer6033]

I personally think building their own engine is a good idea if they can afford all the machining equipment to get it done. I counted over 120 separate machining operations on the head alone. Quite alot for a part that's only the size of a loaf of bread. I'm not sure of how many of these operations can be done simultaneously with the latest computerized milling machinery but it's still going to take a lot of expensive machinery to turn out an engine every 2 minutes. Hopefully Comau has a plan for that.

 

[JEBar]

I personally think building their own engine is a good idea if they can afford all the machining equipment to get it done. I counted over 120 separate machining operations on the head alone. Quite alot for a part that's only the size of a loaf of bread. I'm not sure of how many of these operations can be done simultaneously with the latest computerized milling machinery but it's still going to take a lot of expensive machinery to turn out an engine every 2 minutes. Hopefully Comau has a plan for that.

a complex task indeed .... as one point to consider, RV manufactures face much the same issue of having some components that cannot be built in the same time frame as the campers they are installed in .... to ensure having the component in place when needed for the install they often have the component builders working longer hours/more shifts than the folks on the assembly line .... its reasonable to believe that EM's motor building line may well do the same

 

[Smitty901]

1. ELIO did not build their own engine. They contracted a company to design one for them.
2. Elio may assemble the engine from parts manufactured by others. I doubt ELIO will make the parts.
3. Should ELIO lack the time or ability to assemble the engine, it would not be a stretch from them to contract the work out. Common now days in may things.
We know little about the engine yet. We have seen it in pictures and a video. More is riding on that engine than many understand. It could make or break ELIO. Without an engine that does what ELIO needs they are done. With an engine that shows good results it could be what investors need to sign the check.
PE and those around him had their reasons for going this route. I would assume a lot of research went into it.

 

[Ty]

Oh, I guess that you calling me a troll is not an insult. My bad.

Paul Elio @ SFU

His comments on the engine start about the 8 minute mark. Listen closely between 8:25-8:45. He never tried to contact any of the engine manufacturers. Again, scotoma. You can't see and hear Paul stating, "Not that I tried."

Why would he bother contacting someone who doesn't make an engine that meets the economy requirements? That seems to be a waste of time to me.

 

[Ty]

a complex task indeed .... as one point to consider, RV manufactures face much the same issue of having some components that cannot be built in the same time frame as the campers they are installed in .... to ensure having the component in place when needed for the install they often have the component builders working longer hours/more shifts than the folks on the assembly line .... its reasonable to believe that EM's motor building line may well do the same

I once toured the Airstream plant in Ohio... definitely neat watching campers being built. Elio will have to have an engine produced every minute and will surely have to have multiple machines if any single process takes more than a minute to complete. If it takes 4 minutes to spray the cylinders, they'd have to have either four machines working as long as the production line or two machines working double the time of the production tion line. Luckily, ComU and IAV are experienced.