The Real P5 ?

[WilliamH]

True. Jerome also told me that these tires would be better in both snow and standing water. So hydroplaning was something that is always part of the calculation that tire manufacturers consider when they design for tire width in standard operations. The actual car maker has other considerations like sports traction and looks. Obviously EM is siding with economy engineering over looks.

This does open the door for customization for those who want both an open wheel and a sharpened styling, at the expense of efficiency. And why not? To each their own.

Added: The 1970 (OE) VW Bug had 165/80-15 , so a 15in rim. 80's are tall on a 15.

Just as a thought...... With a right side swing arm it would seem to be a lot more difficult to put wider tires on the rear since that would have the rear tire running off center unless some type of shimming arrangement is used. Any thoughts on that?

 

[Bert]

Just as a thought...... With a right side swing arm it would seem to be a lot more difficult to put wider tires on the rear since that would have the rear tire running off center unless some type of shimming arrangement is used. Any thoughts on that?

It depends on what the rim is. If it's bolted "on center", then wider won't offset. If you put an offset rim on the rear in place of a center line rim, then yes, it will be offset.

 

[Jeff Porter]

It depends on what the rim is. If it's bolted "on center", then wider won't offset. If you put an offset rim on the rear in place of a center line rim, then yes, it will be offset.

I'm interested in learning more about what you said Bert. Can you explain more in simple terms, for example the rim being bolted on center, a wider tire won't offset. Thanks!

 

[AriLea]

Rims have a definition of offset from center. Center-line means the offset to bolt-up with the hub carrier face is zero from center of the two tire beads, and therefore the body of the tire. (correct me if I'm wrong, I'll check-see link) The hub carrier is what has the lug-bolts, some brake parts and a couple bearings inside.

So if you up the size of a tire, or also the size of the rim, keeping to a center line rim will push out the space equally.

Most times people need to re-figure what the offset should be with wider tires, especially if they want all the extra pushed to a side.
But on the Elio, where the front wheel covers could be changed, staying with center-line rims would work best, assuming the P5 is already a center-line set-up.

FWD often has extra metal and 'stuff' around the hub, so a negative offset is used which gives more space in there for it. Plus the fact the steering geometries differ from non-powered wheels.

On front wheels, when you change the rim offset (or call it the tire offset if you like) this changes some steering and suspension geometries. That's something that should be checked with a qualified professional. Right now only EM has anyone fully qualified.

Unless you are hitting stuff on the car with the tire, you generally stay with the same offset. But most people are trying for a wide-look, so more positive offset is the norm with custom rims. It is sometimes particularly offensive to FWD.

In racing the offsets are adjusted to change dynamic steering characteristics as often as anything else.

In the future when more people have tried different offsets (and either lived or died ) then there will be more qualified people to say what offsets are acceptable. Sounded a little harsh, but it's true.

 

[Anderson Howard]

Has anyone noticed if the disc brake is on the wheel or inboard by the differential?

 

[Jeff Bowlsby]

How about this, the P4 chassis build.

 

[Anderson Howard]

View attachment 7389 How about this, the P4 chassis build.

New view, Looks great

 

[cantwait]

In general, it's not that hard to deal with the offset. Just increase the offset by 1/2 of the rim width increase. As for the rear wheel, the limiting factor will be the design of the swing arm. You could check out the Vanderhall thread to see an example. More than likely, Elio will not design enough clearance in the swingarm to go up more than 1.0-1.5 inches in rim width. It should be easy enough to tell by anyone going to the LA auto show.

 

[Rickb]

Progress: Speaking of tires.

 

[JEBar]

its good to see the front suspension is in place ....

per Elio Momentum v24:

"Interior Upgrades

Body styling has always been important for catching the consumer’s eye. But, the reality is, people spend their time in the vehicle. Over the last decade, automakers have put more emphasis on interior styling, amenities and functionality. Elio Motors knows the interior will be important to our fans and customers. We’ve made some nice upgrades on the P5 that are likely to help differentiate the vehicle when we reach production.

Most of these changes are very subtle, but they’ll make a difference in comfort and convenience:

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  • The arm rest on the door was raised;
  • The rear seat was lowered to create more passenger headroom;
  • Additional foam was added to the rear seat for a cushier feel.

We also upgraded the instrument panel for better aesthetics:

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  • A redesigned iPad holder;
  • The A-pillar shape will be less intrusive; and
  • Brushed metal was added to the dashboard to provide a more modern look.

None of these changes are revolutionary, but each one helps add up to an improved driving experience for both the driver and the passenger. It also shows just how many small engineering details need to be considered on the road to production."

oxymoron : modern looking Elgin dash ---- that I really want to see