Traction Control System

[wheaters]

How on earth did people ever drive without modern electronic aids?

All that traction control does is, in a basic form is to sense wheel spin and reduce power if the driver doesn't do it himself.

People get themselves unnecessarily all bunched up over this sort of thing, probably because they have never driven without electronic brains between them and the road.

If there's not enough power to break traction, traction control is an unnecessary complication. Trouble is, manufacturers have to cater for the lowest common denominator when it comes to driver skills.

 

[Jeff Miller]

How on earth did people ever drive without modern electronic aids?

Amen brother!

 

[Snick]

How on earth did people ever drive without modern electronic aids?

All that traction control does is, in a basic form is to sense wheel spin and reduce power if the driver doesn't do it himself.

People get themselves unnecessarily all bunched up over this sort of thing, probably because they have never driven without electronic brains between them and the road.

If there's not enough power to break traction, traction control is an unnecessary complication. Trouble is, manufacturers have to cater for the lowest common denominator when it comes to driver skills.

HINT: this is not a 4 wheeled vehicle, which 100% of your experience has been in. BTW, you're right. This car does not need traction control. What it needs is ESC: Electronic Stability Control.

There is a vast difference--too bad you didn't know that.

I will wait to see your report the first time you try and drive one with a heavy passenger and no ESC in inclement weather. Hope you have good life insurance.

;0

 

[skygazer6033]

Traction control, stability control, ABS, lane departure warning, adaptive cruise control, rear cameras, auto park, reverse warning, side looking infrared, forward looking infrared, auto brake, HUD and I'm sure many others I've missed. All of these gadgets add to confidence and abilities of those individuals who shouldn't be driving in poor conditions. In many cases the electronics would allow a person with limited skills to really get in over their heads.

 

[wheaters]

Snick, you're getting nasty, absolutely no call for that. You obviously have a problem with anyone who holds a differing viewpoint.

You have absolutely no idea what I've driven over the last forty five years since I first learned to drive in a muddy field. I have actually driven three wheelers, and previously owned one - have you? I have also been riding motorcycles since 1970, on and off road.

I know quite a lot about the effect of weight shift and with more practical driving experience than you might have yourself. Some of my bikes were very lightweight, the rearwards weight shift of which are even more affected by the carriage of a passenger than any Elio will be.

My Liege has, by design, a weight distribution of 40% front, 60% rear. This gets more rearward biased with both seats used because the seats are only just forward of the rear axle line, and the centre of gravity moves even more rearwards when we load the boot (trunk) with tools and put two spare wheels on the rear of the car for off-road trialling. This is done by design. It helps tyre traction but the effect on the handling of the car has to be taken into consideration. We also reduce the rear tyre pressures where allowed, again for traction on slippery surfaces, but affecting the cornering of the car, so this is done for extreme off road sections only. We are not allowed to use any form of LSD axles in these competitions. Traction control and/or ASC/DSC would be pointless because cars wouldn't get off the start line on the most extreme sections, or possibly not even get to the start line, as sometimes happens.

My present daily driving car is a powerful RWD model (155 mph) and one that's generally considered to be tail happy; it has ABS, DSC, DTC, the lot. It also has 256 hp. My previous car was FWD and had slightly less power but still had the same electronic equipment. I drive harder than many and in all weather, including lying snow, that causes others to stay at home. Most of the time the electronic assistance is NOT necessary. In very severe conditions electronic aids can actually be a hindrance, that's even acknowledged by the car manufacturers themselves.

Here in UK we have quite a number of front wheel drive, 2F/1R trikes, as well as the more common rear wheel drive, 1F/2R ones. For example we have the Lomax and the Blackjack Avion and the Pembleton, all Citroen based. We also have the DRK, Renault based. These are acknowledged to be very safe little cars. As far as I know, none of them have never been fitted with any form of electronic control, certainly the donor cars weren't and believe me, if there had been a problem our specialist kit car magazines would have highlighted it. They haven't; I've been regularly buying them since the mid 1970s.

What they have highlighted is that FWD x2 trikes like the Elio are inherently good and safe in the handling department. Because they have only one rear wheel, they roll outwards in turns and tend to unload the inside front wheel. In extreme cases, the inside front wheel will break traction, which is what ASC effectively does artificially. Conversely, with a RWD trike, unless the driver backs off, the rear wheel can continue to push the car into the bend, possibly until it overturns.

JZR overturned their demo car with a customer on board, with fatal results. Grinnal put their demonstrator on top of an Armco barrier during an over enthusiastic demo drive not twenty miles from here. Both of them RWD.

 

[Lil4X]

Early models of BMW's M5 SUV used impulse braking to stop a wheel from overspeeding, thus providing some measure of traction control. The system was electronically controlled, rather than being driven by a viscous coupling alone, and it worked fairly well . . . that is if you could stand the hammering and juddering of the ABS applied to a single wheel to direct power across the axle to its mate. It had the advantage of being cheap, but most users disliked it. That didn't keep it from being adopted by other luxury marques, but after two or three years, most moved back to an "intelligent" viscous coupling.

 

[RKing]

The vett example is just the reason it is ill advised. The driver at 60 on glare ice has exponicially longer stopping distance. Yes, I know about ABS, it keeps you in a straightish line. But does nothing to reduce stopping distance under adverse traction. Just means you run under the truck at 53MPH going straight.(actually happened,at a slower speed, during a magazine test drive in the 80s) .Also does nothing to help steer the car when a need change direction is encountered. The diver that could not move forward was better off! Even thou he could have moved if he controlled the throttle properly. Parlor trick to sell magazines and the latest "feature". As stated above, it interfears with the ability to use the throttle to "unload" the rear end (on RWD) to allow another steering imput. Driver must know how to use it, and most don't now. Now, on a Z06, TC was really nice in hard corners ,dry pavement to allow SERIOUS acceleration by keeping that 500HP firmly connected to the ground while I was very busy with the steering wheel Off topic , but whats with the stupid paddle shifters on the steering wheel, absolutely useless once you start into the curves, couldn't find them, had to stop and push the PB to go back to auto ???? Granted, I tried it all of 90 seconds
On ASC , never played with it ,but from reading it needs some control over the shocks to keep the car level. Way complicated fo ra 6800$ vehicle. Again I'll pass. The passenger sits in front of the rear wheel and amounts to (even a big one) 200 lbs in a 1750 lb system... Just not an issue. I ride 2 up ocasionally, with said passenger directly above rear wheel . 150 lbs in a 850 lb "system" with a much higher CG. NO Problem, and I don't bother to adjust the suspension. I set up the suspension many years ago while riding hard, and I will not be "riding hard" with a passenger. Just much ado about nothing. TC is easy, most components are already present on an ABS vehicle, just software and validation. That makes it a very good money maker when the market can be convinced it's "needed .for safety and such". ASC could be a very good thing, but adds hardware and complexity. Still asking for trouble on glare ice. Shoot, I have trouble walking on glare ice

 

[wheaters]

Could someone explain what "glare ice" is, please? Is this sheet ice? It's not a term I've heard before.

 

[JEBar]

its a very thin sheet of ice

Jim

 

[Truett Collins]

Could someone explain what "glare ice" is, please? Is this sheet ice? It's not a term I've heard before.

It is called black ice in may parts of our country, not sure what the term is for it in the UK.