Vehicle Options While Waiting For Your Elio

[RKing]

thanks Awesome , checked that site for the Regal and the truck actually shows slightly better , I got 28 with the Regal until the stupid whiskygas ,dropped to 25 ish then. Still 50% better than what I'm drivin ! thats 835 dollars saving per year in fuel (at 25MPG), other expenses replace the Regal. Won't pay for itself like Elio but should be able to save myself about 500$ till Elio Time Just thinkin out loud...

 

[Curtis Camerono]

Has Elio posted any list of additions we can order for your cars and the price.

 

[Joshua Caldwell]

They've posted a list of options & that there will be more, but not price. The only price we have is for the automatic with estimates ranging from $400-$800.

 

[carzes]

An important consideration is that any "meanwhile" vehicle must pay for itself. The answer for me was a 2005 Honda Insight. It was $3000 and will pay for itself in gas savings alone by the time the Elio arrives. Given that the first generation Insight is very rare and increasingly collectible, I'll probably be able to sell it for more than I bought it for too. The insight is extremely reliable and there is a well-established enthusiast community at insightcentral.net.

I'm getting over 60 MPG in the Insight with a 42 mile daily commute.

I'm just gonna indulge my inner math-nerd for a second, and hope you don't mind, BUT....
For the Insight to even USE, much less SAVE $3000 on a 42 mile, 60 mpg commute would take a little under 4.5 YEARS. The Elio is supposed to be about 12 months away. By my math for the Insight to pay for itself in the 12 months 'till the Elio rolls, you would have to be replacing a vehicle that gets about 9.5 miles per gallon. What the heck were you driving?!?! A semi truck gets better than that!
I'd love to be getting into the 60 mpg range though. I have a 110 mile commute, so it adds up FAST. I've just been wary of hybrids

 

[Gas-Powered Awesome]

For the Insight to even USE, much less SAVE $3000 on a 42 mile, 60 mpg commute would take a little under 4.5 YEARS

Fair question. I may have been exaggerating, but not excessively.
First, so long as I take care of it, it's a very high probability I'll be able to get what I paid for it when I sell it, so it's already break-even. Second, delivery of the Elio is more like 14-18 months away. With luck I'm wrong, but we have a man who's never built a car, building a car that has never been built, with an engine that's never been built. What could possibly go wrong? Honestly I think June 2016 is more realistic, if not still optimistic.

So, on to the math:
( (42 miles/day x 200 days/year) / 18 MPG actual ) * $3.50/gal = $1633 in gas/year
( (42 miles/day x 200 days/year) / 61.5 MPG actual ) * $3.50/gal = $478 in gas/year

Difference is $1155/year. So in 15 months expected time when I wrote the post, I would save $1444. Quite a ways from $3000, but I was expecting the worst case resale value of $1500, so I would have been less than $60 short.

Factor in my commute may grow to 70 miles within the year and I'm at $2000-ish before the Elio arrives, not counting resale. If I'm not wrong (I hope I am) then the savings as-is also goes to $2000+ over 21 months. Add the longer commute and it's $3300. This also assumes commute-only, even though I do use the Insight for other trips too.

All of that also assumes gas doesn't move much. Right now it's going down but I think that's a temporary ploy by the Saudis. I think $3.50 average price over the year+ until the Elio arrives is reasonable. Payback will come must faster if it goes back up over $4 again. And the value of the Insight will go up!

The Insight, like the Elio, is a gamble. It's a hedge bet. If Elio is late or never delivers I'm good to go. If it comes on time (or early ) or gas stays cheaper, I'm still likely to break-even. It's a good hedge. Super-geeky engineering marvel too for a car-guy engineer like me.

 

[carzes]

Fair question. I may have been exaggerating,
The Insight, like the Elio, is a gamble. It's a hedge bet. If Elio is late or never delivers I'm good to go. If it comes on time (or early ) or gas stays cheaper, I'm still likely to break-even. It's a good hedge. Super-geeky engineering marvel too for a car-guy engineer like me.

Super geek-out Yo! Behold the power of simple math. I'll bet you don't buy many lottory tickets either. I just thought it would be fun to run some numbers. Naturally we could get into all sorts of additional details, but I think you covered the gist of it.
I was wondering though, what do they figure is the life expectancy of the battery packs in those, and how much to replace one? I understand it's pretty prohibitive. Do you know if they can be made to run without the battery, or would the computer be reduced to a neurotic mess spitting out random bits of dissapproving code?

 

[Lil4X]

Toyota supposedly warrants their hybrid battery in the Prius for 100-120 thousand miles, but I expect that is pro-rated. Replacement cost is high, and although I don't know anyone who has yet had it done, it's at least on the order of $8-$10K. To me the problem with a hybrid is that you are paying for TWO prime movers - one ICE and one electric. That gets needlessly expensive from the outset, and it is going to take years to recover that initial cost.

But, because hybrids and EV's are in demand among a certain group of prospective owners, to date their resale value has remained stable. You might get a decent deal on a Prius or an Insight on the used car lot, in a year or two, you might be able to sell it without taking a crippling loss. Remember the cost of ownership is your purchase price (along with taxes), minus your selling price - and investment in gas, oil, repairs, and insurance during your term of ownership. Viewed in that light, an Insight or a Prius looks a bit better as an interim solution.

 

[AriLea]

Toyota supposedly warrants their hybrid battery in the Prius for 100-120 thousand miles, but I expect that is pro-rated. Replacement cost is high, and although I don't know anyone who has yet had it done, it's at least on the order of $8-$10K. To me the problem with a hybrid is that you are paying for TWO prime movers - one ICE and one electric. That gets needlessly expensive from the outset, and it is going to take years to recover that initial cost.

But, because hybrids and EV's are in demand among a certain group of prospective owners, to date their resale value has remained stable. You might get a decent deal on a Prius or an Insight on the used car lot, in a year or two, you might be able to sell it without taking a crippling loss. Remember the cost of ownership is your purchase price (along with taxes), minus your selling price - and investment in gas, oil, repairs, and insurance during your term of ownership. Viewed in that light, an Insight or a Prius looks a bit better as an interim solution.

The replacement cost for a new battery pack in my 2007 was $3500 with exchange. Exchanges on rebuilt packs is around $1200.
If I would have continued with the 2007, I would have learned how to do the servicing myself, which includes balancing, testing and replacing bad or low performing cells.

 

[Gas-Powered Awesome]

Super geek-out Yo! [...]
I was wondering though, what do they figure is the life expectancy of the battery packs in those, and how much to replace one? I understand it's pretty prohibitive. Do you know if they can be made to run without the battery, or would the computer be reduced to a neurotic mess spitting out random bits of dissapproving code?

There's a lot of FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt) propaganda being spread around about hybrids alongside the facts. I even bought into some of the FUD but now see it for what it is. Even so, the facts are such that I still think an all-gas solution like the Elio can achieve excellent economy with less damage to the environment and pocketbooks than an all-electric, plug-in hybrid, or a pure hybrid.

The life expectancy of the hybrid and electric packs I know of is at least ten years. Honda warranty on the g1 Insight pack is 8 years and provides total replacement. My Insight is ten years old with 150k miles and the still-original pack behaves as-new. It's a small pack at 144 volts and 6.5 Amp-hours. It has 120 D-size nickel-metal hydride (NiMH) batteries wired in series, held in a ventilated plastic cage about the size of a thick briefcase. The kicker is discharge at full power assist is 100 Amps, while regenerative braking charges them at 50 Amps. Yikes! These are not ordinary NiMH cells!

Replacing the pack with an aftermarket one costs about $2000 from a reputable seller. The non-Honda replacements have higher capacity and longer life than the original packs. So figure $2000 every 10 to 15 years worst case. A small blip compared to the money saved on gas!

The Insight can be used without the pack. In an hour with a wrench and a screwdriver an owner can bypass the pack - remove it completely if they want - and the car will work just fine. The only sign it's not there will be the 15+ MPG drop in fuel economy, the "IMA" warning light on the dash, and glacial acceleration. It will still pass emissions. I can't speak for the Prius.

 

[Gas-Powered Awesome]

[...]To me the problem with a hybrid is that you are paying for TWO prime movers - one ICE and one electric. That gets needlessly expensive from the outset, and it is going to take years to recover that initial cost.
[...]
Remember the cost of ownership is your purchase price (along with taxes), minus your selling price - and investment in gas, oil, repairs, and insurance during your term of ownership.

To counter some of the FUD dogging hybrids, all the car companies selling them offer very long transferable warranties on the battery. Usually providing full replacement if it fails. No proration.

Replacement improved battery packs for the Insight are about $2000. For the first Prius they are under $2000. For the second gen Prius they are about $2500-3000. Prorate those costs over the 10+ year pack lifespan and it's not a big deal.

I agree that the extra prime mover makes hybrids more expensive than is really practical. Unless you buy used and cheap like I did. I think the Chevy Volt is the best of all the electrics or hybrids, but the $40,000 price tag makes it a non-starter. That's why I'm all-in for the Elio: It's all Gas-Powered Awesome!