What To Do With The Gas?

[johnsnownw]

Thanks for the test data. I agree, we are probably alright, but I still like the hybrid drive systems that use a small battery and a small gas or diesel, or CNG engine. It seems to make more sense to me to have some way to keep moving beyond a straight battery EV.

Yup, Hybrids/PHEVs are absolutely necessary with our current state of battery/BEV development. There are many reasons for this, but EMF concerns just aren't really one of them. Not that concerns should be disregarded, just that we understand how to mitigate, or shield from, exposure.

 

[Sethodine]

Well, I'm not sure if "absolutely necessary" would be the term I would use. For the 8% of the population that commutes more than 35 miles a day, a PHEV may be a better option than a BEV.

 

[STLviaCMH]

Interesting development on the electric quick-charging bus concept we were talking about. Looks like the Dutch are putting it to use, albeit in a slightly different way:

http://www.eltis.org/discover/news/dutch-cities-launch-europes-largest-e-bus-fleet

 

[johnsnownw]

Well, I'm not sure if "absolutely necessary" would be the term I would use. For the 8% of the population that commutes more than 35 miles a day, a PHEV may be a better option than a BEV.

I understand what you're saying, but there is a reason most BEVs sold today are used as 2nd vehicles. It's also true that the number one and two selling vehicles in the US are pick-up trucks. An affordable BEV pick-up isn't really practical just yet. Also, the 8% of the population that drives outside of a sub-100 mile vehicles practical range corresponds to over 25 million.

Perhaps instead of "absolutely necessary" I should say "consumer trends require."

 

[McBrew]

A lot of people seem to be looking for a one-size-fits-all solution. It'll be a long time before ICEs aren't the best choice for a lot of people. Having said that, battery electric is the right choice for a lot of folks, and battery tech is only going to get better. Alternative fuels will be the way to go for others.

Public transportation is already much more efficient than most cars in places where it can be properly employed. Battery electric buses can also charge/run from overhead cables as I have witnessed in Europe. Of course, public transportation doesn't work out in the rural areas. Some people need trucks or SUVs to haul stuff, people, or to tow trailers.

Cost is important, too. A $30,000 ICE powered truck is going to sell better than a $200,000 electric truck.

Like many other things in life (especially those with a political bent) there are actually multiple solutions to the problem.

I was amused years ago when gas prices surged and people sold their 15 MPG trucks at a loss and bought 50 MPG hybrid cars. Then they complained that the hybrids couldn't do what their trucks could do. If they had bought a 35-30 MPG smaller truck, they could have done almost everything the larger truck did, and would have paid the same in gas as they were before... but people tend to over react and make poor decisions (like selling stocks when they drop down a bit, or buying gold when it is at an all-time high).


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[xtspode]

Yup, there are promising developments in several areas that are important to allow mass-adoption of FCEVs. However, there is a long way to go, and there are alternative fuels to hydrogen. The need to compress hydrogen to 700 bar to make it practical for transportation is physical issue that cannot be overcome.

Batteries are ahead of FCEVs, despite FCEVs having a several decades head start. That is to say, current battery technology...as current EVs are incomparable to the early EVs of the 20th century. It's also true that PEMFC FCs are closer to their theoretical maximum efficiency than Li-Ion...and Li-Ion isn't even close to the theoretical maximum density for batteries. If you consider the advancements being made in battery technology, and the cost of building a hydrogen infrastructure...it's going to be difficult to make a case for H2 FCEVs in the coming decades. There are still some hurdles with charging infrastructure, of course.

I do think it's possible for both technologies to co-exist, but even after all of the hurdles are overcome, someone still has to build out a multi-billion dollar infrastructure...and you've got to have enough interest in FCEVs to make such a system profitable. BEVs allow for autonomous driving/fueling...and I think autonomy going to completely change the landscape of personal vehicle ownership over the next two decades...something it appears BEVs are more suited to.

Have you heard whether the metal hydride tanks are still in play. They tested them here in Utah on buses where the hydrogen bonded to the porus filler material in the tank at a very low pressure, then gave it off readily when the valve was opened. The tanks were relatively heavy, but the hydrogen was not under near the pressure to carry a substantial volume of gas.

I tried to post a link to some of the internet info, but couldn't seen to make it happen.

 

[xtspode]

A lot of people seem to be looking for a one-size-fits-all solution. It'll be a long time before ICEs aren't the best choice for a lot of people. Having said that, battery electric is the right choice for a lot of folks, and battery tech is only going to get better. Alternative fuels will be the way to go for others.

Public transportation is already much more efficient than most cars in places where it can be properly employed. Battery electric buses can also charge/run from overhead cables as I have witnessed in Europe. Of course, public transportation doesn't work out in the rural areas. Some people need trucks or SUVs to haul stuff, people, or to tow trailers.

Cost is important, too. A $30,000 ICE powered truck is going to sell better than a $200,000 electric truck.

Like many other things in life (especially those with a political bent) there are actually multiple solutions to the problem.

I was amused years ago when gas prices surged and people sold their 15 MPG trucks at a loss and bought 50 MPG hybrid cars. Then they complained that the hybrids couldn't do what their trucks could do. If they had bought a 35-30 MPG smaller truck, they could have done almost everything the larger truck did, and would have paid the same in gas as they were before... but people tend to over react and make poor decisions (like selling stocks when they drop down a bit, or buying gold when it is at an all-time high).

Hey I resemble that statement about buying gold high. I kept my old truck though and drove my GEO metro more. Still needed the truck once in a while.


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[johnsnownw]

Have you heard whether the metal hydride tanks are still in play. They tested them here in Utah on buses where the hydrogen bonded to the porus filler material in the tank at a very low pressure, then gave it off readily when the valve was opened. The tanks were relatively heavy, but the hydrogen was not under near the pressure to carry a substantial volume of gas.

I tried to post a link to some of the internet info, but couldn't seen to make it happen.

As far as I'm aware they're still working on them, but aren't particularly close to a marketable product.

 

[STLviaCMH]

More on the Electric-Bus-Charging-while-stopped front: Scania and the Swedes going hybrid with the idea.

https://www.fastcoexist.com/3066935/this-electric-bus-recharges-at-bus-stops-in-just-a-few-minutes