What Would Paul Do?

[Samalross]

2019 is the last year of the Micra in Canada. Sales are too low. Maybe price is not a big factor in purchasing. My wife needed a new car. I wanted her to get a small car. Rav4 was as small as she would go.

 

[Samuel Gompers]

First off, I don't see a Chinese ever building an Elio. People need to stop thinking that the Chinese can do it all. They can do many things but building an Elio is not in anyones interest there or here. The Elio would never work in the Chinese market and unless the Elio was electric, they have less than zero interest. For an American to go there to get them to build an Elio, it could happen but that's easily 2 years out.

Then there's another problem. People are hardwired on a $7450 Elio that's ICE, has a 3 year 36K mile warranty, Pep Boys service and warranty. So, unless it meets those specs, the Elio will not do well. Paul told us that he can do it and make $1k per car with 20% on accessories. So that's all people know. They also know the average price of an Elio will be $10,700, so that's fine and they accept that since Paul said it. At this point, when you throw out a set of specs, you must do it. People hate change and Paul has the 4 musts which for many means, it's a forgone conclusion.

It's up to Paul to mow live up to what he hardwired in everyones brain. If he doesn't, many will be mad and thus the project a failure.

I just spent the last 2.5 weeks in China. One for a conference on Americans getting things built in China and the other visiting customers. So, forget about China doing this.

I would agree that China would not have any motivation to build an Elio knockoff for several reasons: it's not electric, there is no domestic market for it, and there is not completed vehicle to knock off.

As for the specs - those promises explain why the Elio wasn't built. To be successful, a product must be priced high enough for the producer (and investors) to make money, and low enough to provide value for the consumer. At $7500, there simply isn't any profit, much less enough profit to attract investors. That is ignoring the $1000-2250 discounts promised on many of the early units, the debt, and the incomplete engineering and prototyping. At $18k, the value proposition has faded away for the vast majority of Elio's original reservationists/customers. Thus the impasse.

While it's easy to disagree on the exact numbers, the concept is sound. The Arcimoto FUV is $20k, if it makes it to production - electric, but not fully enclosed. The EMV Solo is $16k, if it ever makes it to production - electric, enclosed, but only one seater and made in China. Polaris Slingshot S (cheapest version) is $21K - more horsepower, but not enclosed.

This is a bargaining-stage discussion: "What would Paul (or the customers) (or the investors) be willing to give up to get the vehicle built and sold?" Whether due to intransigence or impossibility, the impasse remains. Indefinitely.

 

[RSchneider]

2019 is the last year of the Micra in Canada. Sales are too low. Maybe price is not a big factor in purchasing. My wife needed a new car. I wanted her to get a small car. Rav4 was as small as she would go.

Purchase one and you have a $8K car in the US that's perfectly legal and will not cost you any more. Unless you do it then you admit it cannot be done. I know it can't be done but it's up to you to prove it and thus let the other 65K Elio Owners that this will be what they can get and drive until the Elio comes out. Perfect solution and if only 20% take the offer, that's 30K sales of the Micra which will send those sales through the roof. I'll be watching the sales numbers in August and see the massive uptick.

I watched the Micra Cup bat Trois Rivieres back in 2005 (during the NASCAR weekend), so it's good to see the US finally waking up to the value of it and how easy it'll be to get them in the US.

 

[Samuel Gompers]

Over the last 10 years. Why have not Elio Owners used this as a stopgap solution? $8K for a brand new 4 seater ICE. It doesn’t get Elio documented mileage but it helps to buy it as opposed to the $30K gas hogs we are forced to buy. It’s a massive profit due to the price and mileage. With new option, everyone here go to Canada and get your semi Elio. In 76 weeks you can sell it.

I'm not sure about "stopgap", but we have gone on with our lives. Any temporary holds on life that were caused by Elio-anticpation have been removed. For me, motorcycles work just fine. For others, used cars, EV's, new cars, trucks, etc. I suspect that for most of us, it's still a cool idea, but I don't think anybody is stressing about it anymore.

 

[KD]

I'm not sure about "stopgap", but we have gone on with our lives. Any temporary holds on life that were caused by Elio-anticpation have been removed. For me, motorcycles work just fine. For others, used cars, EV's, new cars, trucks, etc. I suspect that for most of us, it's still a cool idea, but I don't think anybody is stressing about it anymore.

Yup, I'm in this boat. Got my used Volt that has exceeded all expectations. Still check in more often than I care to admit, and would still buy an Elio in a friggin' heartbeat if they could get it done. The realist in me says I pissed away my all in plus stock, but dammit, I still want my Elio!

I see some say it is old and outdated technology, but I do not. It is a simple vehicle, and that is all it was intended to be, and that is what I believe most of us signed up for.

KISS people, KISS!

GEAUX ELIO!

 

[84mpg]

I’m right there with you KD!!!

 

[RSchneider]

Yup, I'm in this boat. Got my used Volt that has exceeded all expectations. Still check in more often than I care to admit, and would still buy an Elio in a friggin' heartbeat if they could get it done. The realist in me says I pissed away my all in plus stock, but dammit, I still want my Elio!

I see some say it is old and outdated technology, but I do not. It is a simple vehicle, and that is all it was intended to be, and that is what I believe most of us signed up for.

KISS people, KISS!

GEAUX ELIO!

The Elio is not old technology and it's not KISS. So, why people say that is beyond me. If it was old tech, then it would have a carb, distributor, engine driven fuel pump and be a pushrod engine. No electric locks, no AC, no power windows, no airbags, no ABS or no TC. The automatic would a a non electronic 3 speed and all would have a speedometer cable. The headlights would be the round or rectangular ones that we used to buy cheap. That would be KISS. As we all know, everything I mentioned, will not happen on the Elio and thus it's no different than a Nissan Versa or Mitsu Mirage.

In some ways the Elio is more complex. It has 4 front fenders. The front suspension is way more complex over a McPherson strut arrangement. Even though the Elio is missing a door, it still has 2 power windows. It's missing a rear view mirror, so that will never break. As for the rear suspension, think about it. How many rear suspension failures are there on a cheap FWD car today? The answer is, rarely. Torsion beam vs a trailing arm. One is made out of steel and welded together by a robot. The other is cast aluminum that will be machined by a robot.

I think that people wish that the Elio was KISS and old tech but the reality is that is only a dream. Only other way to look at it is this way. The Elio is the most simple vehicle out there. It has zero parts and zero failures. That's Ultra KISS.

 

[Mel]

I think that people wish that the Elio was KISS and old tech but the reality is that is only a dream. Only other way to look at it is this way. The Elio is the most simple vehicle out there. It has zero parts and zero failures. That's Ultra KISS.

On one hand, the Elio gets "0" mpg. But on the other hand, it burns "0" gas!

 

[FC]

On one hand, the Elio gets "0" mpg. But on the other hand, it burns "0" gas!

Doesn't that fit every vehicle before it gets into production?

 

[Ty]

The Elio is not old technology and it's not KISS. So, why people say that is beyond me. If it was old tech, then it would have a carb, distributor, engine driven fuel pump and be a pushrod engine. No electric locks, no AC, no power windows, no airbags, no ABS or no TC. The automatic would a a non electronic 3 speed and all would have a speedometer cable. The headlights would be the round or rectangular ones that we used to buy cheap. That would be KISS. As we all know, everything I mentioned, will not happen on the Elio and thus it's no different than a Nissan Versa or Mitsu Mirage.

In some ways the Elio is more complex. It has 4 front fenders. The front suspension is way more complex over a McPherson strut arrangement. Even though the Elio is missing a door, it still has 2 power windows. It's missing a rear view mirror, so that will never break. As for the rear suspension, think about it. How many rear suspension failures are there on a cheap FWD car today? The answer is, rarely. Torsion beam vs a trailing arm. One is made out of steel and welded together by a robot. The other is cast aluminum that will be machined by a robot.

I think that people wish that the Elio was KISS and old tech but the reality is that is only a dream. Only other way to look at it is this way. The Elio is the most simple vehicle out there. It has zero parts and zero failures. That's Ultra KISS.

KISS applies to the Elio still. Two configurations to deal with is VERY simple. There were 21 different cross-body harnesses on the S-10 line. 21! There will be ONE on the Elio line because they'll use the same one for either transmission. To me, that's as simple as it gets. They'll use existing parts for all engine components, transmission, suspension, etc. KISS. It's simple. It isn't old school. But in your example, why didn't you go all the way back to the Model T or horse and buggies? KISS doesn't mean "void of technology". It means to not complicate things. Electric windows? Of course. Who makes manual windows any more and how much would that save, anyway? (those aren't much simpler to install anyway)

KISS... two configurations in 7 colors. It really doesn't get much simpler than that. (Sure, the Model T was one configuration and one color but still)