Why Is The Elio Roll-out Different?

[KenK]

Someone please point out the thread to me where this has probably already been discussed...

When I heard that Elio was going to use his $17M "kickstarter" funds to bankroll the P5-P30 prototypes I have to wonder why so many. To me, the ignorant layman with regard to the automotive industry, this thing should have started like a snowball. I look at the electric motorcycle industry and see companies like Brammo and Zero. Did it take them $17M worth of prototypes? I realize thats not really apples to apples, but Brammo raised $10M in 2008 and went on sale in August 2009. Certainly this is no walk in the park, but I would be happier to know that $17M at least gets production started. Let 100 roll off the line, let people see this is the real deal, then the momentum will take off.

If they existed, $17M should buy you 2500 Elios, not 25.

I probably have been misinformed. I get my news from the internets.

 

[Craig]

I think if you look at it, you can make a motor cycle on TV and the brakes are the only thing on them that's keeps them from having a less then 0 star safety rating. I think it all most all has to do with the complexity of the frame and getting it accredited with a 5 star rating. Psychologically, the 5 star rating will do more to sell the car than any thing that can be added. This car would be on the road all ready, if not for the rating. As for the cost, each one is hand made and I think I saw where each one cost around $250K each. JMO

 

[Coss]

I think if you look at it, you can make a motor cycle on TV and the brakes are the only thing on them that's keeps them from having a less then 0 star safety rating. I think it all most all has to do with the complexity of the frame and getting it accredited with a 5 star rating. Psychologically, the 5 star rating will do more to sell the car than any thing that can be added. This car would be on the road all ready, if not for the rating. As for the cost, each one is hand made and I think I saw where each one cost around $250K each. JMO

Close, but they have estimated the cost to build the P5 at about $700K. The P6-P25 are going to be used for a number of different tests.
All of this development is to make sure to go into production as right as they can make it. They don't want to enter production haphazardly and have to make major changes part way in. The safety ratings are very important to the design of the Elio, but that is just part of the testing.

Someone please point out the thread to me where this has probably already been discussed...

When I heard that Elio was going to use his $17M "kickstarter" funds to bankroll the P5-P30 prototypes I have to wonder why so many. To me, the ignorant layman with regard to the automotive industry, this thing should have started like a snowball. I look at the electric motorcycle industry and see companies like Brammo and Zero. Did it take them $17M worth of prototypes? I realize thats not really apples to apples, but Brammo raised $10M in 2008 and went on sale in August 2009. Certainly this is no walk in the park, but I would be happier to know that $17M at least gets production started. Let 100 roll off the line, let people see this is the real deal, then the momentum will take off.
If they existed, $17M should buy you 2500 Elios, not 25.
I probably have been misinformed. I get my news from the internets.

As for comparing it to electric motorcycles the Elio is a completely new category of vehicle; it is an Autocycle and so a number of new areas that never existed before are opening with the Elio. They have been working for a long time to get the laws changed nationwide to accept the Autocycle. This included helmet laws and licensing (both for the driver and the vehicle).
The "Kickstarter funds" are not funds yet. The Start Engines program (currently at around $24nillion+) is a market test to see how many people and to wht extent they would be interested in investing in Elio Motors. The goal is $25mil and this current "testing the waters" is scheduled to go until the end on the month. At that point they will do the filing with the SEC to turn it into real stocks. How long that takes is up to the SEC. This interest in buying stock in Elio Motors is also a positive sign to the (I know someone will correct me on this part, and it's welcome, it's way too early in the morning for me) Elio Motors is apply for an ATVM government loan for $185mil. From what we've been told this is progressing in a positive direction.

In short, there is so much more involved with getting the Elio into production than most people would ever consider.

Follow this thread, I'm such the people that are much better versed in certain areas than I will add in details.

 

[Rickb]

At $700K a P-Pop somebody is making an exorbitant amount of profit in the few months of estimated time to accomplish the P builds and testing prior to production.

 

[Coss]

At $700K a P-Pop somebody is making an exorbitant amount of profit in the few months of estimated time to accomplish the P builds and testing prior to production.

That is what I believe I read in one of the articles; it is not a cast in stone amount. Someone could have been playing a numbers game with someone else listening in. I don't remember ever hearing a total cost analysis done on what it cost to build.
So don't get too hung up on that number.

 

[KenK]

This:

"These fundraising efforts are important to our continued success. Our last fundraising initiative in March yielded enough investment to begin building our fifth generation prototype, the P5. The latest effort will help fund the P6 through P30 so we can do some important validation and testing work."

That "latest effort" is the stock sale they hope will net $25M. They already have a drivable model. I don't understand how the additional prototypes can be so expensive and why so many are necessary. Im sure someone well versed in this industry can, but I can't.

The 5-star safety rating seemed like a voluntary goal. I don't think a certified test methodology exists for a 3-wheel vehicle, so who comes up with that? How long is that going to take to hash out? If you look at the cheap pieces of junk that college kids buy now I am sure they are no where near 5-star.

Elio v1.0 should keep me dry, perform decently (accel, brake), and save me gas money. I honestly don't expect more for $7K. I ride a motorcycle, so I've made peace with my chances of demise.

You can put all this extra safety crap in Elio v2.0 (notice I said EXTRA, not basic!).

 

[Coss]

The safety features have always been a part of the Elio, and they are not "extra" as you claim they are KenK.
Elio Motors is not going to build a safe and a non-safe model just for you.
The Elio is being built for the masses, not individuals.
If you have an argument with this I suggest you take it up with the people at Elio Motors.
Venting about it in here is not a subject we support in the Elio Owners Group.

 

[msmith5150]

700k is a ridiculous amount even to hand build the P5, no way the sum of the materials needed could cost that much. My bet is there is more cost in the labor and time needed to build it than the physical parts, but I still can't bring myself to believe it would cost that much. Except for the bare chassis and drivetrain motorhomes are hand built and you can BUY on of those for around 100k.

 

[JEBar]

700k is a ridiculous amount even to hand build the P5, no way the sum of the materials needed could cost that much. My bet is there is more cost in the labor and time needed to build it than the physical parts, but I still can't bring myself to believe it would cost that much. Except for the bare chassis and drivetrain motorhomes are hand built and you can BUY on of those for around 100k.

it includes building jigs for production of subsequent units .... while most of the components are off the shelf, attaching them to the frame/body are all first builds .... the same for helping to pay for the cost of brand specific components to set up their production .... I agree that to me that's a great deal of money but they the money is for more than just building the trike ....

 

[Rickb]

That is what I believe I read in one of the articles; it is not a cast in stone amount. Someone could have been playing a numbers game with someone else listening in. I don't remember ever hearing a total cost analysis done on what it cost to build.
So don't get too hung up on that number.

You are correct. It was the amount stated by Paul Elio in a recent Q & A.