WilliamH
Elio Addict
Grew up in Hasbrouck Heights and Ramsey, NJ. Moved to various upstate locations Rochester, Syracuse, Norwich, NY. Then back to Middletown, NJ. Had friends out near Franklin Square.
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The Elio Automatic Transmission
- Thread starter Floyd
- Start date
Grew up in Hasbrouck Heights and Ramsey, NJ. Moved to various upstate locations Rochester, Syracuse, Norwich, NY. Then back to Middletown, NJ. Had friends out near Franklin Square.
floydv
Elio Addict
Ekh
Elio Addict
I am quoting the following from an Elio Fan's Facebook page. It explains how an MMT differs from an ordinary automatic transmission and from a standard transmission. I am not clear as to whether or not the Elio will have an MMT, or only a standard transmission using a shift mechanism driven by the computer's choices for the correct gear.
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Thomas BuyeatoElio Motors
June 8 ·
Elio P5 Transmission information.
The Elio P5 will have the new Elio engine and the New maybe custom designed for the Elio by AISIM Multi-Mode (Automated) Manual Transmission, This type design is in only a very few cars 3 of the 5 listed in the explanation in the link below I have never heard of and I do not think are imported to the USA) currently and this one may be designed from scratch for Elio by AISIN, So to a degree this may be a beta test, This type of automated stick shift transmission with computer operated solenoids doing the shifting and operating the clutch has some strange operating methods that you can read about in the included link describing Multi-Mode Manual Transmissions. (below)
There are several things about this design of transmissions that you may not know about and probably are Not expecting ? Most automatically shifted transmissions have a torque converter but this design has a clutch that the computer purposely slips to allow you to wait at a red light where the street you are on is going up hill !!! In the description in the link below it tells you not to use throttle control so as Not to roll backwards when stopped on a hill, Or it will overheat the clutch and I might add wear out the clutch plates, This is ok to do on a hydraulic automatic transmission. Read here below and see many differences in an Automatic or a Stick shift Transmission and a Multi-Mode Manual Transmission.
I am a trained, Licensed, and Experienced auto mechanic, Aircraft mechanic and Radio and TV station Engineer and I do not understand all the intricacies of the operation of this transmission as described here below. (But notice how many times it mentions don't let the transmission do different things on it's own or damage to the clutch will be done.)
My Elio will definitely be completely manual.
Read Differences from an automatic car, One screen down or at the link below.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multimode_manual_transmission
Look at this link also for more Multi-Mode Manual Transmission information.
The Multimode Manual Transmission has the following gears: R, N, E, M+, M-.
•R: R is the reverse gear. It is similar to R in both traditional manual and in full automatic cars.
•N: N is the neutral gear. It is similar to N in both traditional manual and full automatic.
•E: E is the functional equivalent of D in a full automatic. As the gearbox in a MMT car is a manual gearbox, instead of one with a torque converter as in a traditional automatic, gear changes are noticeable. The accelerator should be eased off slightly when gear changes to produce a smooth ride.
•M- : Downshifts a gear in sequential fashion, from M5 (M6 in 6-speed MMT cars) to M1.
•M+: Up-shifts a gear in sequential fashion, from M1 to M5 (M6 in 6-speed MMT cars).
Differences from an automatic car[edit]
A Multimode manual car has a clutch instead of a torque converter. As such, gear changes are noticeable, and the car rolls backwards when on an up-sloping incline.
•Creeping: A Multimode Manual Car creeps forward when the brake pedal is released and accelerator is not depressed, like an automatic car. This is achieved via partially engaging and slipping the clutch.
•Moving off from an incline: A MMT car rolls backwards when on an up-sloping incline, unlike an automatic car. To move off from an up-slopping incline, apply handbrake before depressing the accelerator slightly. Do not hold the car on an incline by depressing the accelerator pedal, as the slipping clutch will overheat and lead to clutch damage.
•Parking: Unlike an automatic car, the P gear is absent in a MMT car. The car should be parked in the following fashion. In an up-slopping incline, put the gear to M1, or E, apply handbrake, and switch off the engine. In a down-slopping incline, put the gear to R, apply handbrake, and switch off the engine. On level ground, put the gear to R, apply handbrake, and switch off the engine. R or E/M1 substitute the P function in a full automatic.
•Moving off from Park: The engine can only be started with the gear in N. To start, switch on the car to ON position (this releases the gear lock), depress brake pedal, put the gear to N (from either R or E/M1), and switch on the engine.
•L/1 and 2 gears in a full automatic: The MMT does not provide L/1 and 2 gears as in a full automatic. One action of the MMT system is that it detects the gradient of the slope that the car is situated in. On a down-slopping incline and if the brake pedal is depressed, it automatically selects a lower gear to produce engine brake, which has the equivalent effect of L and 2 gears in a full automatic. L and 2 can also be substituted with E1 and E2 (not available in Aygo) or M1 and M2 gears in a MMT car. To select E1 or E2, put the gear to E, and use + and - pedal flaps on the steering wheel to override the computer selection. E will change to E1/E2/E3/E4/E5/E6, depending on the gear selected. Downshift to E1 or E2 as appropriate to simulate L and 2 gears in a full automatic. To select M1 or M2, put the gear to M, and use M- gear to downshift the gear to M1 or M2.
•Kick-down: In E mode, the kick-down function in a full automatic can be similarly activated in an MMT car. Additionally, the kick-down function can be manually activated using the - pedal flap on the steering wheel in E mode. This overrides the computer setting and E changes to E1/E2/E3/E4/E5/E6. To stop the manual override under E mode, pull and hold the + flap on the steering wheel, until the E1/E2/E3/E4/E5/E6 changes back to E. Alternatively, wait for the next computer activated gear change.
•Reverse: The car reverses as in an automatic car. To reverse, depress brake pedal, and change the gear to R. Gradually lift off the brake pedal to allow the car to creep backwards. On a down-slopping incline, the creep function, simulated using the slipping clutch, is not sufficient to prevent the car from rolling forward. In this case, the car must not be held still using the accelerator pedal, as the excessive clutch slipping will lead to clutch damage. Handbrake should be instead applied, and the accelerator pedal should be depress slightly.
•Gear change: The gear change in MMT is noticeable, unlike in a full automatic car. Under E gear, the car will automatically change the gear depending on speed and gradient information. It is recommended that the accelerator pedal should be momentarily lifted off during gear change. A constant throttle can also be maintained on the accelerator, and gear change can still occur, although the car will feel noticeably more jerky during gear change than in a full automatic.
Operation under E mode[edit]
The E mode functions as the D gear in a full automatic car. Via the on board computer and electronic clutch, the car automatically selects the appropriate gear based on speed and gradient information. An MMT car limits the highest gear selectable, if the gradient is steep.
•L and 2 gear in a full automatic: The L and 2 gear in automatic can simulated in an MMT car by either using E1/E2 or M1/M2.
•Es mode: Es mode allows more dynamic and sporty driving with faster gear changes, at the expense of greater fuel consumption. Es mode is available in the Yaris and Auris (in Europe). Es mode is similar to the S mode in Direct-Shift Gearbox.
Multimode manual transmission - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Multimode Manual Transmission (MMT or M/M, also Multimode Transmission)[1] is a type of sequential manual transmission offered by Toyota. It uses a traditional manual gearbox with an electronically controlled clutch. Multimode Manual Transmission is available in the Aygo, Yaris, Corolla, Corolla Ver…
EN.WIKIPEDIA.ORG
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Thomas BuyeatoElio Motors
June 8 ·
Elio P5 Transmission information.
The Elio P5 will have the new Elio engine and the New maybe custom designed for the Elio by AISIM Multi-Mode (Automated) Manual Transmission, This type design is in only a very few cars 3 of the 5 listed in the explanation in the link below I have never heard of and I do not think are imported to the USA) currently and this one may be designed from scratch for Elio by AISIN, So to a degree this may be a beta test, This type of automated stick shift transmission with computer operated solenoids doing the shifting and operating the clutch has some strange operating methods that you can read about in the included link describing Multi-Mode Manual Transmissions. (below)
There are several things about this design of transmissions that you may not know about and probably are Not expecting ? Most automatically shifted transmissions have a torque converter but this design has a clutch that the computer purposely slips to allow you to wait at a red light where the street you are on is going up hill !!! In the description in the link below it tells you not to use throttle control so as Not to roll backwards when stopped on a hill, Or it will overheat the clutch and I might add wear out the clutch plates, This is ok to do on a hydraulic automatic transmission. Read here below and see many differences in an Automatic or a Stick shift Transmission and a Multi-Mode Manual Transmission.
I am a trained, Licensed, and Experienced auto mechanic, Aircraft mechanic and Radio and TV station Engineer and I do not understand all the intricacies of the operation of this transmission as described here below. (But notice how many times it mentions don't let the transmission do different things on it's own or damage to the clutch will be done.)
My Elio will definitely be completely manual.
Read Differences from an automatic car, One screen down or at the link below.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multimode_manual_transmission
Look at this link also for more Multi-Mode Manual Transmission information.
The Multimode Manual Transmission has the following gears: R, N, E, M+, M-.
•R: R is the reverse gear. It is similar to R in both traditional manual and in full automatic cars.
•N: N is the neutral gear. It is similar to N in both traditional manual and full automatic.
•E: E is the functional equivalent of D in a full automatic. As the gearbox in a MMT car is a manual gearbox, instead of one with a torque converter as in a traditional automatic, gear changes are noticeable. The accelerator should be eased off slightly when gear changes to produce a smooth ride.
•M- : Downshifts a gear in sequential fashion, from M5 (M6 in 6-speed MMT cars) to M1.
•M+: Up-shifts a gear in sequential fashion, from M1 to M5 (M6 in 6-speed MMT cars).
Differences from an automatic car[edit]
A Multimode manual car has a clutch instead of a torque converter. As such, gear changes are noticeable, and the car rolls backwards when on an up-sloping incline.
•Creeping: A Multimode Manual Car creeps forward when the brake pedal is released and accelerator is not depressed, like an automatic car. This is achieved via partially engaging and slipping the clutch.
•Moving off from an incline: A MMT car rolls backwards when on an up-sloping incline, unlike an automatic car. To move off from an up-slopping incline, apply handbrake before depressing the accelerator slightly. Do not hold the car on an incline by depressing the accelerator pedal, as the slipping clutch will overheat and lead to clutch damage.
•Parking: Unlike an automatic car, the P gear is absent in a MMT car. The car should be parked in the following fashion. In an up-slopping incline, put the gear to M1, or E, apply handbrake, and switch off the engine. In a down-slopping incline, put the gear to R, apply handbrake, and switch off the engine. On level ground, put the gear to R, apply handbrake, and switch off the engine. R or E/M1 substitute the P function in a full automatic.
•Moving off from Park: The engine can only be started with the gear in N. To start, switch on the car to ON position (this releases the gear lock), depress brake pedal, put the gear to N (from either R or E/M1), and switch on the engine.
•L/1 and 2 gears in a full automatic: The MMT does not provide L/1 and 2 gears as in a full automatic. One action of the MMT system is that it detects the gradient of the slope that the car is situated in. On a down-slopping incline and if the brake pedal is depressed, it automatically selects a lower gear to produce engine brake, which has the equivalent effect of L and 2 gears in a full automatic. L and 2 can also be substituted with E1 and E2 (not available in Aygo) or M1 and M2 gears in a MMT car. To select E1 or E2, put the gear to E, and use + and - pedal flaps on the steering wheel to override the computer selection. E will change to E1/E2/E3/E4/E5/E6, depending on the gear selected. Downshift to E1 or E2 as appropriate to simulate L and 2 gears in a full automatic. To select M1 or M2, put the gear to M, and use M- gear to downshift the gear to M1 or M2.
•Kick-down: In E mode, the kick-down function in a full automatic can be similarly activated in an MMT car. Additionally, the kick-down function can be manually activated using the - pedal flap on the steering wheel in E mode. This overrides the computer setting and E changes to E1/E2/E3/E4/E5/E6. To stop the manual override under E mode, pull and hold the + flap on the steering wheel, until the E1/E2/E3/E4/E5/E6 changes back to E. Alternatively, wait for the next computer activated gear change.
•Reverse: The car reverses as in an automatic car. To reverse, depress brake pedal, and change the gear to R. Gradually lift off the brake pedal to allow the car to creep backwards. On a down-slopping incline, the creep function, simulated using the slipping clutch, is not sufficient to prevent the car from rolling forward. In this case, the car must not be held still using the accelerator pedal, as the excessive clutch slipping will lead to clutch damage. Handbrake should be instead applied, and the accelerator pedal should be depress slightly.
•Gear change: The gear change in MMT is noticeable, unlike in a full automatic car. Under E gear, the car will automatically change the gear depending on speed and gradient information. It is recommended that the accelerator pedal should be momentarily lifted off during gear change. A constant throttle can also be maintained on the accelerator, and gear change can still occur, although the car will feel noticeably more jerky during gear change than in a full automatic.
Operation under E mode[edit]
The E mode functions as the D gear in a full automatic car. Via the on board computer and electronic clutch, the car automatically selects the appropriate gear based on speed and gradient information. An MMT car limits the highest gear selectable, if the gradient is steep.
•L and 2 gear in a full automatic: The L and 2 gear in automatic can simulated in an MMT car by either using E1/E2 or M1/M2.
•Es mode: Es mode allows more dynamic and sporty driving with faster gear changes, at the expense of greater fuel consumption. Es mode is available in the Yaris and Auris (in Europe). Es mode is similar to the S mode in Direct-Shift Gearbox.
Multimode manual transmission - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Multimode Manual Transmission (MMT or M/M, also Multimode Transmission)[1] is a type of sequential manual transmission offered by Toyota. It uses a traditional manual gearbox with an electronically controlled clutch. Multimode Manual Transmission is available in the Aygo, Yaris, Corolla, Corolla Ver…
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I had a Volvo with CVT and like you I don't want another CVT.
CrimsonEclipse
Elio Addict
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I've driven sever CVT's from different manufacturers and there's a very wide performance difference between them.
Long story short, the software controlling the ratio is the most important part and Toyota is the only manufacturer to get it right.
Remember how Elio had to make a custom engine because no existing engine fit the HP/price/power curve requirements?
Same would go for a CVT. It would have to be developed and would likely take years and money, neither of which are in abundance right now.
Like the turbo, it will likely become an option 5 years down the road.
A CTV would actually be a very good thing for the Elio.... just not yet.
Long story short, the software controlling the ratio is the most important part and Toyota is the only manufacturer to get it right.
Remember how Elio had to make a custom engine because no existing engine fit the HP/price/power curve requirements?
Same would go for a CVT. It would have to be developed and would likely take years and money, neither of which are in abundance right now.
Like the turbo, it will likely become an option 5 years down the road.
A CTV would actually be a very good thing for the Elio.... just not yet.
Sethodine
Elio Addict
This is what I've been wondering:
The Elio is only going to ship with a maximum of two transmission options--a manual and an automatic. Any more options beyond that would be preposterous. So....which one is the MMT? Is the MMT the only "manual" transmission option, or is it the "automatic" option?
The Elio is only going to ship with a maximum of two transmission options--a manual and an automatic. Any more options beyond that would be preposterous. So....which one is the MMT? Is the MMT the only "manual" transmission option, or is it the "automatic" option?
WilliamH
Elio Addict
Two options ---------
Aisin BC5 --- 5 speed manual --- has a clutch pedal --- third pedal --- comes standard
Aisin MC5 --- 5 speed automated manual --- has no clutch pedal --- optional at extra cost
MC5 = MMT
Sethodine
Elio Addict
Alright, thanks! That helps a lot.
Any idea how much extra cost for the MMT? I know before they were saying $600-$1000, but as far as I know that was before they had nailed down a specific model to use.
Hmm...All along I've been thinking I wanted to go with the MC5-AMT(Automatic Manual Transmission). But after reading the operating procedures for the MMT if the MC5-AMT is equivalent to it, I think I will stick with the stick. 
