Exciting News - Sec Resubmission

[Jeff Porter]

Muchas gracias Bilbo!

 

[Ty]

A motorcycle classified vehicle or a motorcycle disguised as an autocycle should not qualify for CAFE credits. Defeats the purpose of the mandated higher MPG requirements set for AUTO manufactures cars and trucks. EM should be able to make a fair profit on the vehicles they manufacture using off the shelf parts and current technology in a different package. AUTO manufacturers need to actually build higher MPG cars/trucks or buy credits from other AUTO manufacturers that choose to do so, not buy credits from a MOTORCYCLE manufacturer. Harley Davidson get in line? Both sides working together?

CAFE credits would not remove any hurdles or solve EM's immediate financial needs to actually manufacture the Elio.

The purpose of CAFE credits is threefold. 1. punish manufacturers for making poor economy vehicles and 2. reward those who DO make efficient cars. and 3. Encourage people to stop driving inefficient cars as much.

Giving Elio CAFE credits does all three. It encourages people to drive to work at 84MPG rather than 16MPG (Me), it'll help Elio be profitable and continue producing vehicles, it'll probably highlight to other manufacturers there is profit there (they'll get tired of watching some of their profits go to Elio), and Lastly, it'll be better for our roads... lighter is better... My truck weighs in right at 10,000 LBS and when I drive my Elio to work, I'll be taking 8,000+ pounds of punishment off the roads.

So, I hope the CAFE credits work out for Elio and I think that letting Elio earn CAFE credits (it is reasonable to think someone would drive it to work rather than their "other" vehicle where it isn't as likely that a CanAm Spider rider would ride all year to work) fits in with the spirit of intent.

 

[Rob Croson]

3. Encourage people to stop driving inefficient cars as much.

Out of curiosity, how does CAFE provide incentive to consumers to drive fuel efficient vehicles? I'm not familiar with it beyond what I've heard here lately. I don't think I've ever even heard of it before joining this forum.

Indirectly, if a manufacturer produces higher MPG vehicles they will have to pay less CAFE penalties, thus making their vehicles cheaper. But really, you'd have to have one hell of a price difference before people would notice. And then you'd have to point out why that difference is there. Maybe listing the vehicles CAFE credit/penalty right on the sticker in big, bold letters would help.

 

[JEBar]

as you note, higher MPG manufactures marker cheaper operation .... when fuel cost go up, people seem to respond .... when fuel cost go down, not so much

 

[Kuda]

The purpose of CAFE credits is threefold. 1. punish manufacturers for making poor economy vehicles and 2. reward those who DO make efficient cars. and 3. Encourage people to stop driving inefficient cars as much.

Giving Elio CAFE credits does all three. It encourages people to drive to work at 84MPG rather than 16MPG (Me), it'll help Elio be profitable and continue producing vehicles, it'll probably highlight to other manufacturers there is profit there (they'll get tired of watching some of their profits go to Elio), and Lastly, it'll be better for our roads... lighter is better... My truck weighs in right at 10,000 LBS and when I drive my Elio to work, I'll be taking 8,000+ pounds of punishment off the roads.

So, I hope the CAFE credits work out for Elio and I think that letting Elio earn CAFE credits (it is reasonable to think someone would drive it to work rather than their "other" vehicle where it isn't as likely that a CanAm Spider rider would ride all year to work) fits in with the spirit of intent.

Bazinga!

 

[cantwait]

The purpose of CAFE credits is threefold. 1. punish manufacturers for making poor economy vehicles and 2. reward those who DO make efficient cars. and 3. Encourage people to stop driving inefficient cars as much.

Giving Elio CAFE credits does all three. It encourages people to drive to work at 84MPG rather than 16MPG (Me), it'll help Elio be profitable and continue producing vehicles, it'll probably highlight to other manufacturers there is profit there (they'll get tired of watching some of their profits go to Elio), and Lastly, it'll be better for our roads... lighter is better... My truck weighs in right at 10,000 LBS and when I drive my Elio to work, I'll be taking 8,000+ pounds of punishment off the roads.

So, I hope the CAFE credits work out for Elio and I think that letting Elio earn CAFE credits (it is reasonable to think someone would drive it to work rather than their "other" vehicle where it isn't as likely that a CanAm Spider rider would ride all year to work) fits in with the spirit of intent.

While that sounds good, we still run into the law of unintended consequences. The fact is that many people can and do ride motorcycles and Spyders to work all year round. Should only work or commuting vehicles be eligible for CAFE credits, or should pleasure and recreational vehicles be eligible? What about vehicles used for family and school? How many days a week, month or year does a vehicle have to be used to qualify? How many miles must it be driven?

The reasoning that an enclosed three-wheel motorcycle should be eligible could easily be extended to non-enclosed three-wheelers. Then motorcycles. Then velomobiles. Then bicycles. Why not skateboards and rollerblades as well?

In my opinion, both the Vitter "safety" legislation and CAFE legislation would increase regulatory control over three-wheelers, and would wind up eliminating the sector as we know it. Depending on your point of view, that could be a good thing or a bad thing. In general, the more things are regulated, the more advantageous it is to big businesses, while small businesses and entrepreneurs tend to be squeezed out.

Perhaps all of that comes back to your original point about the purpose of CAFE credits. Should the government be involved in punishing and rewarding non-criminal behavior, or should the free market be allowed to work?

 

[Sethodine]

While that sounds good, we still run into the law of unintended consequences. The fact is that many people can and do ride motorcycles and Spyders to work all year round.

Down south, sure. But Up north (particularly here in the Pacific Northwest) the motorcycle season is about 1-3 months, depending on how determined you are. But I could drive the Elio to work every day of the year. As to other vehicles applying for CAFE, I think that would be fine too if they could achieve the rigorous automobile safety standards that Elio is striving for.

Perhaps all of that comes back to your original point about the purpose of CAFE credits. Should the government be involved in punishing and rewarding non-criminal behavior, or should the free market be allowed to work?

However, the prevailing philosophy is that inefficient cars ARE criminal, hence the regulation. CAFE is one of the better methods of government regulation, actually, because it creates financial incentives that don't rely on taxpayer-funded subsidies. Does that make it right? Perhaps not. It is a tangled skein.

 

[Johnny Acree]

But miles driven are not part of the formula.
Here is a link http://lobby.la.psu.edu/_107th/126_..._Activities/NHTSA/NHTSA_Cafe_Overview_FAQ.htm

 

[AriLea]

A motorcycle classified vehicle or a motorcycle disguised as an autocycle should not qualify for CAFE credits. Defeats the purpose of the mandated higher MPG requirements set for AUTO manufactures cars and trucks. EM should be able to make a fair profit on the vehicles they manufacture using off the shelf parts and current technology in a different package. AUTO manufacturers need to actually build higher MPG cars/trucks or buy credits from other AUTO manufacturers that choose to do so, not buy credits from a MOTORCYCLE manufacturer. Harley Davidson get in line? Both sides working together?

CAFE credits would not remove any hurdles or solve EM's immediate financial needs to actually manufacture the Elio.

So funny, I'd often dreamed of Elios being sold in pair with large expensive cars, say like a huge 4WD truck with the Elio as an assessor.
And Jerome had mentioned that to me as one of the possible distributor outlets in states that don't have Elio Stores in them. This is something the dealers themselves could decide to do, and indeed, Elio Motors has had some inquiries about that at fleet sales.
(Jerome should know, if you don't want me discussing it, let know )

 

[AriLea]

By Jeff Porter: A survey in Detroit of 2000 people who watched a video on the Elio, showed almost 24% of them were very likely or extremely likely to buy an Elio.

Wholey smokes. Is Detroit a easy, hard or average effort to sell? Arizona would have been a better mix, more comparable to the whole country, or am I wrong? In any case 24% of 200million drivers in the us, minus 30% who are one of two that are married, that is, is ah, 33.4 million out the gate. That's 133years to fill that demand. To offset the uncertainty, some of the non-takers could possibly need a car later and re-consider it in such a population.