Road & Track Livestreams A Test Drive Of The P5. And The Fender Falls Off... :(

[AriLea]

They probably want to get the Aero right first.

Yep, probably only after the Wind-Tunnel testing is done. Even though the mirrors are about the biggest variable in that.

They could test a front 'chin' changes or some under-panels and maybe a side panels at the suspension 'gap', and that's probably about it. Maybe some shape changes to the nose or radiator vent?

I doubt highly that any of the other current skin geometry is up for gabs.

 

[Ty]

Yep, probably only after the Wind-Tunnel testing is done. Even though the mirrors are about the biggest variable in that.

They could test a front 'chin' changes or some under-panels and maybe a side panels at the suspension 'gap', and that's probably about it. Maybe some shape changes to the nose or radiator vent?

I doubt highly that any of the other current skin geometry is up for gabs.

I agree. There won't be a lot of changes other than exactly what you've said. To increase the Camback, you'd have to change the frame and that means the entire thing would have to be changed. So, that's probably out though it would be kind of nice to have a larger opening back there and maybe some more room. Think instead of the "cut" being in the top surface of the car, it were moved to the sides so that the "lid", when opened, would include a couple inches of the sides of the car. I probably said that wrong but it would make the opening about as wide as the Elio is back there and would allow for easier loading. I believe the Aptera trunk opened like I'm suggesting. But, you can't change much in shape unless the frame gets remade. You can't change the rake of the windshield, for instance without changing the frame... and the dash... and the doors... and the......

 

[Sethodine]

I agree. There won't be a lot of changes other than exactly what you've said. To increase the Camback, you'd have to change the frame and that means the entire thing would have to be changed. So, that's probably out though it would be kind of nice to have a larger opening back there and maybe some more room. Think instead of the "cut" being in the top surface of the car, it were moved to the sides so that the "lid", when opened, would include a couple inches of the sides of the car. I probably said that wrong but it would make the opening about as wide as the Elio is back there and would allow for easier loading. I believe the Aptera trunk opened like I'm suggesting. But, you can't change much in shape unless the frame gets remade. You can't change the rake of the windshield, for instance without changing the frame... and the dash... and the doors... and the......

But then again, one of the test vehicles will be for testing the "frame". So they may be using it to test alternate frame geometry if that is required for aero changes. (Although, I assumed the Frame test vehicle would just be for manufacturability tests).

 

[Ekh]

Yep, probably only after the Wind-Tunnel testing is done. Even though the mirrors are about the biggest variable in that.

They could test a front 'chin' changes or some under-panels and maybe a side panels at the suspension 'gap', and that's probably about it. Maybe some shape changes to the nose or radiator vent?

I doubt highly that any of the other current skin geometry is up for gabs.

There might be one or two possible tweaks remaining. For instance, there was a discussion of a cowling to Shield the windshield wiper blade. I agree about reducing the physical dimensions of the rear view mirrors and making them more aerodynamic in terms of their housing. Of course right now they're probably stock items and you run into a cost issue having custom parts.

Another and potentially much more expensive change is fitting a NACA airfoil section over the protruding steering and suspension members. You might gain significant highway mileage from that, but it would probably be quite expensive and raise yet more issues with parts that want to fall off.

I keep thinking there is something hinky about the shark nose front scoop. I'm wondering if some design there might result in low-cost MPG improvements. That would be a relatively low cost change to make. Other ideas?

 

[W. WIllie]

Wiper blades?...........Only one, sorry.
I'm still pushing for the aero panel under the vehicle.

 

[Ekh]

Wiper blades?...........Only one, sorry.
I'm still pushing for the aero panel under the vehicle.

Yes, of course it's one blade.

 

[JEBar]

Yes, of course it's one blade.

 

[pistonboy]

If EM is going to offer a large stock sale, a favorable review from Road & Track as well as Car & Driver would help boost the sale of stock. This may be what EM was intending.

Perhaps EM could try another approach. Car companies are very secretive about their prototypes in the evolution of a car and usually destroy them, not letting anyone see them. EM should do the opposite. They could gather all their prototypes and display them in a non-populated, open, and peaceful area and show them to the reporters of these two magazines. I suspect the reporters would like this very much. This may be the first time something like this has ever been done. The earlier prototypes may only be static displays, but the reporters could drive both the P4 and the P5 (with all its improvements).

As I say, this has probably never been done before. The reporters would like it very much and may even feel honored/privileged that a car company is doing this for them. They would feel more “valued” if Paul Elio himself took the time to be there and talk to them. This would make for a very good story, one I am sure they would love to print, since it would be a “first”.

I am quoting myself to add to my original thought. EM said in Momentum V65 " Therefore, we’ll be able to complete them a little sooner than the E1C, which will be used for marketing purposes. Though the E1C is not truly a test vehicle, it plays an important role in our future. It will be significantly closer to a production vehicle than the P5." It sounds like the E1C will be used for demonstrations to obtain funding.

My idea is to add it to the rest of the prototypes and show P2, P3, P4, P5, and E1C. It is a way of redeeming EM to R&T and C&D. It would be a great video as well and I would love to see it.

 

[Coss]

Yep, probably only after the Wind-Tunnel testing is done. Even though the mirrors are about the biggest variable in that.

They could test a front 'chin' changes or some under-panels and maybe a side panels at the suspension 'gap', and that's probably about it. Maybe some shape changes to the nose or radiator vent?

I doubt highly that any of the other current skin geometry is up for gabs.

How about the wheel spats / Fenders? They talked about the angle of the windshield, how about the front half of the roof line?
I agree with the nose/grill area, and the body in general around the nose area, they might be able to flare it a touch to change the air flow around the front suspension opening; the front suspension also; make the profile of the upper A arm more wing shape.
Aero is how it presents its self to the head wind; and how the flow follows after; they may need to widen or slim down the body lines (this would be done in the outer skin and not the frame.
I don't know if anyone else has seen what they do in the wind tunnel to the F1's; but little changes or bumps or a slight shape change can make a big difference. Big as in, it might only be worth a tenth of a second on the track, but when the competition is that close, that tenth can make a big difference.
In the Elio's case it might mean an ounce of fuel or 1/2 mph more of less.

 

[pistonboy]

Has anyone brought up the "belly pan" and its affects of aerodynamics?

(By belly pan I am referring to a pan below the frame on the very bottom of the vehicle to smooth out airflow.)

I believe the aerodynamic testing is what determines of they have a belly pan or no.