Don't think that Elio had the knowledge or interest in the real cost of making a car.
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How This Radical Car Missed Its Chance To Change The World - Maybe!
- Thread starter Travelbuzz1
- Start date
RSchneider
Elio Addict
The numbers are worse than that. Let's take a company like Ford. They make lots of different vehicles all over the world. So they can absorb those costs into different models. Think of it like lost leaders in a grocery store. You can lose money on some, make a bit on others and a bunch on another group. Problem is, Elio would be like a one product store. That one single product has to produce a really good profit because they don't have another to make up the difference.
With Ford, they were able to bilk the Econoline Van for 23 years before they made the US Transit. Best thing is, they still make that old Econoline but just for fleet use and RV's. Even that old V10 motor Ford made is alive and well today in the RV market. The profit on those vans had to of propped up some of their other failures. So Elio doesn't have that in their back pocket to get it going.
Ever wonder why Tesla is still struggling, it's because they had to introduce a few new models and someone has to pay for all of that work. Tesla doesn't have a clapped out Econoline to prop up their numbers or selling like a guaranteed 800K Trucks per year or a massive built in fleet sales network.
Travelbuzz1
Elio Addict
Here is some background of Paul's, but something has gone very wrong.
Paul Elio graduated from General Motors Institute & the Engineering and Management Institute (now Kettering University) in Flint, MI, Magna Cum Laude with a degree in Mechanical Engineering. With over 18 years of engineering and executive management experience, Mr. Elio has spent much of his time in the automotive space focused on technology development. Holding numerous patents related to mechanisms, Mr. Elio began his career at Johnson Controls, the global diversified technology and industrial leader, and was a founding partner of ESG Engineering, the company that became known for quickly moving ideas from concept to reality. One of ESG’s key projects was the three-wheeled vehicle now known as the Elio.
In 2008, many industry changes were quickly happening, and since ESG Engineering’s business was based primarily on new product development the company struggled to survive. Upon realizing the vast potential of the Elio, Paul created Elio Motors and began the process of fighting the challenges associated with starting a new transportation company. Adhering to four tenets throughout the development process ensured a high quality product: a) ultra-low sticker price, b) ultra-high mileage, c) engineered to the highest safety standards and, d) low risk=existing technology=no R&D.
- CEO
Elio Motors
Aug 2008 – Present11 years 4 months
Phoenix, Arizona Area
As the Chief Executive Officer of Elio Motors, Mr. Elio surrounds himself with a well-rounded team of skilled individuals that help keep the vision of the organization going strong. Mr. Elio cares about keeping jobs in America, perseverance and hard work has become a big part of Paul Elio’s life in the pursuit of this goal.
- President and Founder
- ESG Engineering
Feb 1996 – Present23 years 10 months
ESG Engineering was an engineering consulting firm specializing in new product development. Founded by Paul Elio, ESG grew from one to 45 engineers plus support staff. The company developed a methodology for developing new products using simulation tools early in the design process. The firm was awarded 10 patents
ESG team responsible for complete design of solar dish, including wind, gravity, and seismic loading
• Developed complete seat including 5 new mechanisms for commercial vehicle client
• Developed new recliner that Toyota wanted to put on the Camry
• Developed innovative seat track that was shown at the 2004 North American International Auto
ESG is the opening case study in text book “Strategic Management of Technology and Innovation” used at Harvard and Stanford MBA programs
ESG Engineering was an engineering consulting firm specializing in new product development. Founded by Paul Elio, ESG grew from one to 45 engineers plus support staff. The company developed a methodology for developing new products using simulation tools early in the design process. The firm was awarded 10 patents
ESG team responsible for complete design of solar dish, including wind, gravity, and seismic loading
• Developed complete seat including 5 new mechanisms for commercial.. - Design Engineer
Johnson Controls, Inc.
Jul 1992 – Feb 19963 years 8 months
GMI Engineering and Management Institute (Formerly General Motors Institute)
Bachelor's DegreeMechanical Engineering, Machine Design SpecialtyMagna Cum Lade
1995
Activities and Societies: Founded Inventors and Industrial Entrepreneurs club
Watashiwah
Elio Addict
That almost 24 year period with ESG looks like smoke and mirrors, much like ‘consulting’ usually is. I’ve been on dozens of hiring committees and we sort thru that chaff. It’s not necessarily disqualifying but in Paul’s case he has already said he was a roofer, so we’d have to say he is either dishonest, disingenuous, or ‘forgetful’ (or worse yet, naively counting on us being even more ‘forgetful’). We would pass him over. Most of that is non quantifiable— easy to say, hard to dispute, but is insignificant. I especially like:
“Developed new recliner that Toyota wanted to put on the Camry
Developed innovative seat track that was shown at the 2004 North American International Auto”
Maybe he has to be self employed...not much history with ‘works well with others.’ I also seriously doubt he ever had more than 2 others on the ESG payroll at any one time. Maybe he had to farm out everything to 45 PE’s over the 24 years. If I get the time, which is difficult, maybe I’ll search those ‘10 patents’ and try to gain some insight from the patent ‘co-holders.’
All fluff, no stuff. My antennae went up about 3 years into this saga, after seeing this it is waaaay up. It reads just like his rare press conferences and appearances.
“Developed new recliner that Toyota wanted to put on the Camry
Developed innovative seat track that was shown at the 2004 North American International Auto”
Maybe he has to be self employed...not much history with ‘works well with others.’ I also seriously doubt he ever had more than 2 others on the ESG payroll at any one time. Maybe he had to farm out everything to 45 PE’s over the 24 years. If I get the time, which is difficult, maybe I’ll search those ‘10 patents’ and try to gain some insight from the patent ‘co-holders.’
All fluff, no stuff. My antennae went up about 3 years into this saga, after seeing this it is waaaay up. It reads just like his rare press conferences and appearances.
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Made in USA
Elio Addict
Perhaps a different approach instead of an electric vehicle is to make your own gas, at home. Recent developments such as this one show promise:
Artificial 'Leaf' Creates Clean Gas
New technology developed at the University of Cambridge can create syngas--which is currently made using fossil fuels--using only water, sunlight, and carbon dioxide.
Article here: https://www.designnews.com/materials-assembly/artificial-leaf-creates-clean-gas/38183342861831
Artificial 'Leaf' Creates Clean Gas
New technology developed at the University of Cambridge can create syngas--which is currently made using fossil fuels--using only water, sunlight, and carbon dioxide.
Article here: https://www.designnews.com/materials-assembly/artificial-leaf-creates-clean-gas/38183342861831
johnsnownw
Elio Addict
Why not just make your own "fuel" using only the sun? As long as you have a roof, you've got access to an unlimited supply of energy.
Made in USA
Elio Addict
You have a good point, however consider that the miles you can go on a tank of gas is still generally more than the electrics (for now).
Then look at the cost of the vehicles. Gas vehicles typically cost less and can be bought used. Need a truck? Still waiting for the electrics to be produced in a volume that brings the price down. Then read the article and you will see that the artificial leaf works even if the day is cloudy and other poor light conditions. All the solar cells work best with a good clear sky. Will you be able to charge your electric vehicle during the winter?
PS: The best solar system I'm aware of will be the Enphase EQ8 which allows off grid charging and use. (Being released soon).
johnsnownw
Elio Addict
Well, it's going to depend on how big your system is, and your usage, as to whether it can handle all your charging needs.
Typically, Americans drive 15k miles/yr on average. This ends up being about 3,750 kWh/yr (at least on a Model 3 SR+). This is typically less than the average home solar installation produces a year. This means not only can you charge an EV to cover the yearly needs of the average Am. driver, you can also supplement your home electricity needs. Syngas isn't going to run your home.
EV pricing is coming down considerably, and several BEV trucks are slated to hit the market in the next 1-2 years. The pricing announced for these trucks are not dissimilar to their ICE counterparts. Used BEVs are also quite common on the used market now...and this will only increase considering there are something like 5 million of them on roads around the world.
Made in USA
Elio Addict
Ok, unless you have a gas powered generator the syngas won't run your house. Now consider the opportunity of not only making gas for yourself, but your neighbors as well. Why would they want gas from you? Well it's possible that if electrics take over, then filling stations with gasoline will be phased out into charging stations. When that starts to happen then people with antique vehicles will find the cost of gas to be very high and maybe some distance away. Unfortunately the government will probably pass laws against making your own gas, especially if you are selling it. (License, fire codes, things like that).
Elio Amazed
Elio Addict
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As far as the rationale of choosing this over a solar installation, I would have to think that the artificial leaf would be a lot less of an initial investment.
But seriously, I don't think we'll have to worry about making those choices any time in the near future. Like everything else featured in this type of article it's revolutionary and always just around the corner. We probably won't see this go mainstream for another 40-50 years. And if we ever do, big business will find a way to own it lock, stock and barrel, and make us pay out the nose for it. Wake me when I can go to Home Depot and pick one of these up.
According to articles like this, cancer has been cured in the lab 1,796 times since 1963.
But seriously, I don't think we'll have to worry about making those choices any time in the near future. Like everything else featured in this type of article it's revolutionary and always just around the corner. We probably won't see this go mainstream for another 40-50 years. And if we ever do, big business will find a way to own it lock, stock and barrel, and make us pay out the nose for it. Wake me when I can go to Home Depot and pick one of these up.
According to articles like this, cancer has been cured in the lab 1,796 times since 1963.
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