Thoughts About Elio From A Pickup Lover

[Lil4X]

If you walk through a grocery or big box store parking lot, even on weekends, take a look at the bed of the pickups you'll see, with few exceptions, except for commercial trucks, hardly see a scratch in the bed. I live in the Republic of Texas, and here, where the pickup was born and raised on our farms and ranches, it's a little disconcerting to see some one-ton diesel dually with a pristine bed. It's an image thing for a lot of our "urban" cowboys and wannabe big-rig drivers. Once in a while you'll see a pickup doing yeoman duty in the 'burbs - hauling bags of mulch and fertilizer, a few sheets of plywood, or more often transporting a 4-wheeler to a woodland trail. But I'm still amazed at people like the rather large woman who pulled her bright red Ram 1500 Hemi Crew Cab into the parking stall next to me. She exited the grocery store several minutes later carrying two bags which she deposited in the bed and drove away. The mind boggles at the ton-mile cost of that trip.

But that's what most of our suburban "big rigs" do for a living - and that's perfectly legitimate. What floors me is to see the "monster truck" howling by in the passing lane with a lift kit, four "mud grip" tires, and a determination to consume a large part of our fossil fuel supply hauling one fantasy-camper to work in a downtown office building. OK, the suit's acceptable, but there needs to be a law somewhere he has to at least wear either Lucchases or Tony Lamas with it if he's going to drive that cowboy Cadillac.

Now don't get me wrong - I love old pickup trucks. In fact I'd like an old postwar Chevy to either preserve or restore. I've owned a Travelall and Suburbans - primarily as tow vehicles, but found them useful in my work as well, hauling loads of photo gear on highways and trails all over this part of the world. Pickups definitely have their place . . . but as a daily driver - a commuter vehicle - they are incredibly expensive to feed. 8 MPG doesn't get it on the daily slog. Carrying room for nine adults and a gross capacity over 14K lbs is sorta overkill just to get my little pink body to the office every day.

Thus Elio.

 

[JEBar]

If you walk through a grocery or big box store parking lot, even on weekends, take a look at the bed of the pickups you'll see, with few exceptions, except for commercial trucks, hardly see a scratch in the bed. I live in the Republic of Texas, and here, where the pickup was born and raised on our farms and ranches, it's a little disconcerting to see some one-ton diesel dually with a pristine bed. It's an image thing for a lot of our "urban" cowboys and wannabe big-rig drivers. Once in a while you'll see a pickup doing yeoman duty in the 'burbs - hauling bags of mulch and fertilizer, a few sheets of plywood, or more often transporting a 4-wheeler to a woodland trail. But I'm still amazed at people like the rather large woman who pulled her bright red Ram 1500 Hemi Crew Cab into the parking stall next to me. She exited the grocery store several minutes later carrying two bags which she deposited in the bed and drove away. The mind boggles at the ton-mile cost of that trip.

But that's what most of our suburban "big rigs" do for a living - and that's perfectly legitimate. What floors me is to see the "monster truck" howling by in the passing lane with a lift kit, four "mud grip" tires, and a determination to consume a large part of our fossil fuel supply hauling one fantasy-camper to work in a downtown office building. OK, the suit's acceptable, but there needs to be a law somewhere he has to at least wear either Lucchases or Tony Lamas with it if he's going to drive that cowboy Cadillac.

Now don't get me wrong - I love old pickup trucks. In fact I'd like an old postwar Chevy to either preserve or restore. I've owned a Travelall and Suburbans - primarily as tow vehicles, but found them useful in my work as well, hauling loads of photo gear on highways and trails all over this part of the world. Pickups definitely have their place . . . but as a daily driver - a commuter vehicle - they are incredibly expensive to feed. 8 MPG doesn't get it on the daily slog. Carrying room for nine adults and a gross capacity over 14K lbs is sorta overkill just to get my little pink body to the office every day.

Thus Elio.

agree and your comment supports one of Elio Motor's marketing concepts .... I drive a full size, 4-wheel drive Chevy pickup that serves many functions .... one of which, until a month or so ago when I retired again, was to get me to work and back .... for us it also serves a wide range of other functions .... towing our boat, towing our equipment trailer, hauling trash to the landfill, hauling garden/yard supplies, getting around in winter weather, a vehicle which we can crank in winter and make emergency trips during the winter from our home in NC to my wife's family in SD, towing our daughter's travel trailer, etc, etc .... an Elio can perform a couple of those functions but it can't replace them all .... what it can offer is a relatively cheap to buy and inexpensive vehicle to operate that given sufficient use can actually pay for itself .... using 100,000 miles at $3.25 a gallon as an example .... if our Chevy truck averaged 20 mpg it would burn 5,000 gallons of gasoline at a cost of $16,250 .... if an Elio averaged 48 mpg it would burn 2,083 gallons of gasoline at a cost of $6,770.83 .... that is a difference of $9,479.17 which exceeds the anticipated cost of an Elio .... the numbers above can't be taken as exact values because the mpg's used and the cost per gallon will vary .... they just illustrate the potential

Jim

 

[JP]

Pickup trucks will always have a use for me. Often times, I can't get by without it. However, I'd like something smaller when I don't need a truck at times. Mine has served me well.
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[D Borland]

By using an Elio for your "commutes" the mileage you save on your "primary" vehicle will keep the value of your "primary" vehicle higher and the gas savings will pay for the Elio. To me that is a win win.

 

[Mike W]

By using an Elio for your "commutes" the mileage you save on your "primary" vehicle will keep the value of your "primary" vehicle higher and the gas savings will pay for the Elio. To me that is a win win.

Yup, that's what we're doing with our Elio. If by driving it we can save not only gas but wear on our more expensive, but beloved Honda Fit, that's all the better. It is replacing a pickup, which until we moved to our condo we had reason to keep, now it's just biding it's time until we replace it with the Elio and running me to work occasionally.

 

[ross]

After a conversation with Goofyone I decided to list my reasons for some interest in the Elio project. You see I am really a truck guy at heart. My dream vehicle is a Nissan Titan Crew Cab with a diesel engine. I completely believe diesel technology is far superior to gasoline in almost every way. I am 100% sold on diesel engines.

Now before I get into the Elio let me explain why I find trucks (and to a degree suv/cuvs so appealing). For starters I really like pickups and have owned some (2003 Dodge Dakota and 2006 Nissan Frontier). I really enjoyed both vehicles. I like the way pickups look (some more than others), I find their beds extremely useful, and I like riding higher. (I personally can't stand sport cars as I feel like my butt is being dragged across the payment.) Also there is the added head room. Pickup trucks (suv's and cuv's too) offer more head room in general. My mother finally left sedans and agrees how she prefers the increased head room and feels less boxed in. I got to say see told you so!

Of course the main disadvantage of bigger trucks, especially full size pickups, is fuel economy. That is beginning to change thanks to diesel technology. In fact the RAM now gets 28 highway mpg which is impressive considering not that long ago 15 or so was the best. There is a race now among Ford, GM, Nissan, Toyota, and Chrysler to see who can develop the most fuel efficient full size truck. The target is 30+ highway and 22+ city which again is a huge jump over the 15ish highway and 12ish city that was common not that long ago. However the advancing engine technology for these vehicles is another thread and discussion in and of itself.

So that brings me to Elio.

Why in the world would someone who likes big heavy vehicles even give Elio a second look? Well for starters let me be honest. I have no current desire to own a Elio. None. So does that mean I think Elio is silly or stupid? No, not at all! I believe Elio can fill some niches. I also think Elio can help bring some changes to the automotive market in other ways. However Elio has some short comings too.

I am going to look at the short comings first. Elio is being touted as the next big thing in the transportation market that will change everyone's life. The same was said about the Segway. There is obviously some marketing hype in the statements I have reviewed from Elio Motors. However that is to be expected from the marketing team. I have no issue with Elio Motors trying to put the best light on their product. That is business 101 and a brings up a duh!

Still Elio falls short in several key areas. Of course for families you aren't going to load up four, five or six people. You aren't going to be towing the family boat to the lake. Nor are you going to be able to bring home a lot of goods from a bigger shopping venture. So the "car" if obviously going to fall short for many people. I think this is where Elio future owners need to becareful. I am not calling out anyone just saying if you are talking to a family with a Nissan Quest trying to push them into the greatness of Elio when the vehicle won't fit their needs it will only build resistance. So clearly Elio is far from the car that we will all be driving in the future.

I also noticed Elio is pushing the idea of fleets for businesses. There is some potential here for sure. A lot of businesses like painting companies, tree removal, window replacement, insurance companies, etc have estimators. The Elio would fit that niche extremely well. I recently needed some foundation work done on my home and every company estimator showed up in smaller vehicles instead of full size pickups. Of course work crews and people like plumbers, electricians, painters, etc will continue to need much bigger vehicles to hold all their tools, supplies, and transport bigger items from home improvement stores and suppliers. My point here is what I mentioned above.

Fuel economy is nice but it is far from the only reason a vehicle is purchased. So that goes back to Elio enthusiasts needing to be a little cautious about preaching their love to others. Of course that doesn't mean you can't or shouldn't talk about the vehicle but clearly this vehicle isn't going to replace vans, pickups, or suv/cuv's. Plus people often buy vehicles because they like the form factor or style and gas has little to do with the equation, although that is certainly high on many people's list these days.

If you have made it this far you might be thinking all I am doing is running down Elio and dumping negative energy into this forum. This is where you will probably start to smile. I believe, again being a truck fan, Elio has done many things well and it is for this reason I have some interest. I first must credit Goofyone's talking about this as when we speak on the phone or meet up in person as he has kept me very up-to-date.

So what IMO has Elio done that deserve's kudos?

Well for starters this isn't some silly electric car. Do electric cars have some potential? Sure. Are we there yet? No freakin' way. I laugh when Nissan Leaf owners brag about not spending money on gas and/or saving the environment. Oh really? So you get electricity free? Oh and that electricity is pollution free, eh? Seeing how most of the US still uses coal I say "yeah, yeah, yeah". Pure nonsense. If someone on here drives a Leaf oh well. I am not against anyone owning them. It is your money. I totally understand and am not against the idea of wanting to be removed from gas pump stops, but we still need technology to improve. I think the better idea for "electric" vehicles is using a gas generator and following the diesel electric train type idea. Anyway I digress; back to Elio.

I like how Elio has been designed to use standard off the shelf parts for most of the vehicle. This adds cost savings and basically you are subsidizing the car off the parts designed for other vehicles. So thank the owners of other cars for buying the high priced version and paying for the R&D.

My geekiness and engineer antennas start to twitch when discussing the in's and out's of the Elio design. I, like goofyone, was the kind of kid that took things apart to see how they work, and yes I didn't always get them back together. I enjoy science and technology and reading and learning how things works so it has been entertaining to hear about the way Elio has been designed. So my hat's off to the Elio design team.

I also like new and creative ideas. I like discussing businesses and find it very interesting when new line ideas pop up. I believe the gas payoff solution is extremely novel. Of course we will have to see how well it plays out but it has the potential to cause some changes in the market. Sure most vehicles won't use that method but, assuming it works, it will spur other vehicles to follow suit or at least start thinking of other ways than traditional payment methods. That is nothing short of a win for the consumer and for the businesses that come up with such ideas.

The idea of the retail center sounds very promising too. It could help alter the monopoly traditional car dealership. Those won't be going away but the idea Elio has, along with others, is starting to put cracks in the traditional buying experience. It will be very interesting to see how it all plays out.

I also have to say the idea of hooking up with PepBoys is another ingenious solution. I am sure Paul and co were sitting there going how do we service these "cars" all over the US without some huge dealer network. This is a win-win-win-lose. It is a win for Elio because they don't need to invest in service centers and adds to the selling point that Elio owners will have certified service centers near by (for most markets). It is a win for the customer because they will get official certified Elio support. It is a win for Pepboys as they will pick up business. It is a lose for traditional dealerships because it shows startup "car" companies can have access to instant ready-to-go service centers without the cost or build out. This is another win for the consumer.

The fact this product is being made here in the United States and will create American jobs is really awesome and another great feature of Elio. This is simply amazing especially in the current anti-business environment Washington is creating thanks to both parties. I believe this would change radically if the FairTax was passed but that is for another thread/topic. Anyway back to Elio that is very commendable. Plus I have heard other countries like China are very interested in importing Elios so the possibility for an American "car" company to export vehicles built here is truly amazing.

I see Elio, along with a few other companies, really helping to reshape the vehicle market. I don't think Elio is the car that everyone, or even most people, will want but the potential for this little startup compared to the big boys is real. When you add their ideas with the power of the Internet this is a product that will probably have more changes on the market than the actual vehicle itself.

How many miles do drive a year? I average 35,000. That's just my car, mostly commuting to and from work and that's not counting the miles my wife puts on her car, or our pickup, or our one ton. See why it makes PERFECT sense?

 

[ross]

By using an Elio for your "commutes" the mileage you save on your "primary" vehicle will keep the value of your "primary" vehicle higher and the gas savings will pay for the Elio. To me that is a win win.

I work at the Hanford nuclear reservation in eastern Washington state. The site was constructed in top secret during world war II to produce the plutonium for the atomic bomb that was dropped on Nagasaki Japan to end the war. As such it was built 30-45 miles from the nearest community and that's the average commute. A large percentage of employees van-pool in vans provided by the local metropolitan bus system. Unfortunately I own a 100 acre farm 65 miles in the opposite direction (the advantages far out weigh the disadvantages) but I must commute 130 miles a day. For a number of reasons a large percentage also choose to drive the 60-90 mile daily commute from town.
It is interesting to note the various means of transportation. Geo metros and Suzuki swifts are almost a status symbol, as is the Smart for 2. Not too man years ago VW diesel rabbits seemed to be breeding like...Well you know.
The individuals who choose to purchase new SUV's, crew cab pickup's or large luxury sedan's every couple of years and use them to commute are almost treated with disdain. I know for a fact they are ridiculed behind their backs.
I see the Elio as being the next IT car, and can envision the sight of the commute from town looking a lot like the 60's when it seemed that every other car was a VW beetle.

 

[c0yote]

I see the Elio as being the next IT car, and can envision the sight of the commute from town looking a lot like the 60's when it seemed that every other car was a VW beetle.

First read this as "the next I.T. car" and pictured Best Buy's Geek Squad in black & white Elios.

 

[UCF'73]

I work at the Hanford nuclear reservation in eastern Washington state. The site was constructed in top secret during world war II to produce the plutonium for the atomic bomb that was dropped on Nagasaki Japan to end the war. As such it was built 30-45 miles from the nearest community and that's the average commute. A large percentage of employees van-pool in vans provided by the local metropolitan bus system. Unfortunately I own a 100 acre farm 65 miles in the opposite direction (the advantages far out weigh the disadvantages) but I must commute 130 miles a day. For a number of reasons a large percentage also choose to drive the 60-90 mile daily commute from town.
It is interesting to note the various means of transportation. Geo metros and Suzuki swifts are almost a status symbol, as is the Smart for 2. Not too man years ago VW diesel rabbits seemed to be breeding like...Well you know.
The individuals who choose to purchase new SUV's, crew cab pickup's or large luxury sedan's every couple of years and use them to commute are almost treated with disdain. I know for a fact they are ridiculed behind their backs.
I see the Elio as being the next IT car, and can envision the sight of the commute from town looking a lot like the 60's when it seemed that every other car was a VW beetle.

Ross, Interesting observation. I've been to Hanford a couple times and see what you're saying. INEL and some of the other labs are also spread out and require long commutes or bus rides. I bet you'll see a lot of Elios out there in a few years. Bill

 

[HHH]

When I cut down one of my trees, I fill the 8' bed and then some for a small tree, I'd hate to see how many trips it takes the Elio to move it all lol

"If you were plowing a field, which would you rather use? Two strong oxen or 1024 chickens?"
- Seymour Cray (1925-1996), father of supercomputing