Suppliers And Iav

[WilliamH]

EM gave the impression that even without a Government loan guarantee they had the money to go into production. Now we know that was not the case you can argue why all day long it does not change anything.
If some how Elio gets the Loan Guarantee they still must line up lenders that are willing to make the loans. That is not as easy as you think.
The VA home loan is the same system . Government does not loan a dime they only guarantee the loan. It turns out that if you know how to get a loan and have good credit you can beat any VA loan rate by a large amount. Elio will still face some unattractive issue with securing the cash.
Call it was it is the Loan Guarantee is not a grant it is not cash handed over. The loan is by no means a done deal yet.

As near as I can tell from reading program documentation it is part loan and part loan guarantee.

 

[Past Fanatic]

You don't know that and neither do I. And It is obvious that you haven't taken the time to look into the program requirements and details. You are making assumptions and we both know what that does to me and you. Take the time to look up the details of the program before making silly comments.

I HAVE, obviously YOU haven't. Here is what IS KNOWN:
" ATVM Eligibility Requirements

1. "Projects must be “financially viable without the receipt of additional Federal funding associated with the proposed project”
   
   --- ATVM is a loan program, not a grant program. It Provides “expansion capital,” not working capital."
   ***They need to show that Elio Motors can complete the project... WITHOUT the loan.... and in an interview, Paul Elio said the loan is needed.***"
   "Elio says the loan would give his company enough money to begin production in Shreveport.
   "We need about $230 million more, and this is $185 million of it." -- http://www.arklatexhomepage.com/sto...t-of-energy-loan/29107/ibwbB2afRUWUODVLVGdo_g --

1. "Technical eligibility requirements for ATVS/Qualifying components [10 CFR 611.2; 611.3]:
   
   (b) Ultra efficient vehicle (defined as fully closed compartment vehicle designed to carry at least two (2) adult passengers that achieves either (x) at least 75 miles per gallon while operating on gasoline or diesel fuel or....."
   *** An engine, without the Pre-Production "E" Series vehicle, cannot demonstrate the ability to "achieve" at least 75 miles per gallon.***
   – http://cms.doe.gov/sites/prod/files/2015/02/f19/ATVM_Guidance_for_Applicants_11.4.14.pdf --
   *** Awaiting your 'rebuttal'.... with documentation.*** (Nothing 'silly' about the FACTS)

 

[JEBar]

NOT talking 'politicians'.... just Elio Motors, that made the 'claims', took our money,.... then failed to PRODUCE...... and STILL making the 'claims' and taking money.... when they have publicly stated that they can't meet the PRICE or MPG.

take a look at this link ===> an interesting new release from EM which directly addresses the $6,800 price point .... if you read it, you should be able to figure out that the responses you've been given here are pretty much on target ....

 

[JEBar]

I HAVE, obviously YOU haven't. Here is what IS KNOWN:
" ATVM Eligibility Requirements

1. "Projects must be “financially viable without the receipt of additional Federal funding associated with the proposed project”
   
   --- ATVM is a loan program, not a grant program. It Provides “expansion capital,” not working capital."
   ***They need to show that Elio Motors can complete the project... WITHOUT the loan.... and in an interview, Paul Elio said the loan is needed.***"
   "Elio says the loan would give his company enough money to begin production in Shreveport.
   "We need about $230 million more, and this is $185 million of it." -- http://www.arklatexhomepage.com/sto...t-of-energy-loan/29107/ibwbB2afRUWUODVLVGdo_g --

1. "Technical eligibility requirements for ATVS/Qualifying components [10 CFR 611.2; 611.3]:
   
   (b) Ultra efficient vehicle (defined as fully closed compartment vehicle designed to carry at least two (2) adult passengers that achieves either (x) at least 75 miles per gallon while operating on gasoline or diesel fuel or....."
   *** An engine, without the Pre-Production "E" Series vehicle, cannot demonstrate the ability to "achieve" at least 75 miles per gallon.***
   – http://cms.doe.gov/sites/prod/files/2015/02/f19/ATVM_Guidance_for_Applicants_11.4.14.pdf --
   *** Awaiting your 'rebuttal'.... with documentation.*** (Nothing 'silly' about the FACTS)

just curious, has it occurred to you that EM just might have some pretty good attorneys and engineers working on the ATVM loan application .... with money being tight, I doubt they would be pursuing this loan if their resources don't feel like they have a good shot at getting it

 

[WilliamH]

I HAVE, obviously YOU haven't. Here is what IS KNOWN:
" ATVM Eligibility Requirements

1. "Projects must be “financially viable without the receipt of additional Federal funding associated with the proposed project”
   
   --- ATVM is a loan program, not a grant program. It Provides “expansion capital,” not working capital."
   ***They need to show that Elio Motors can complete the project... WITHOUT the loan.... and in an interview, Paul Elio said the loan is needed.***"
   "Elio says the loan would give his company enough money to begin production in Shreveport.
   "We need about $230 million more, and this is $185 million of it." -- http://www.arklatexhomepage.com/sto...t-of-energy-loan/29107/ibwbB2afRUWUODVLVGdo_g --

1. "Technical eligibility requirements for ATVS/Qualifying components [10 CFR 611.2; 611.3]:
   
   (b) Ultra efficient vehicle (defined as fully closed compartment vehicle designed to carry at least two (2) adult passengers that achieves either (x) at least 75 miles per gallon while operating on gasoline or diesel fuel or....."
   *** An engine, without the Pre-Production "E" Series vehicle, cannot demonstrate the ability to "achieve" at least 75 miles per gallon.***
   – http://cms.doe.gov/sites/prod/files/2015/02/f19/ATVM_Guidance_for_Applicants_11.4.14.pdf --
   *** Awaiting your 'rebuttal'.... with documentation.*** (Nothing 'silly' about the FACTS)

The key is "without the receipt of additional"........... I would say the ATVM loan is not counted in the "Federal funding " as you seem to think.

"Projects must be “financially viable without the receipt of additional Federal funding associated with the proposed project”
CRF 611.100(d)
(d) . For purposes of making a determination under paragraph (a)(2) of this section, additional Federal funding includes any loan, grant, guarantee, insurance, payment, rebate, subsidy, credit, tax benefit, or any other form of direct or indirect assistance from the Federal government, or any agency or instrumentality thereof, other than the proceeds of a loan approved under this Part, that is, or is expected to be made available with respect to, the project for which the loan is sought under this Part.
So you appear to be wrong on that part.
............................................................
You left out key parts
I. GENERAL ELIGIBILITY REQUIREMENTS

ATVM Program loans may be made to eligible applicants to finance the cost of (i) reequipping, expanding, or establishing manufacturing facilities in the United States to produce ATVs or qualifying components or (ii) engineering integration performed in the United States of ATVs or qualifying components. This Section I describes (1) technical eligibility requirements for ATVs/qualifying components , (2) technical eligibility requirements for applicants, (3) financial eligibility requirements for applicants, and (4) technical eligibility requirements for project costs.

The next key word is "designed"
1. "Technical eligibility requirements for ATVS/Qualifying components [10 CFR 611.2; 611.3]:
(b) Ultra efficient vehicle (defined as fully closed compartment vehicle designed to carry at least two (2) adult passengers that achieves either (x) at least 75 miles per gallon while operating on gasoline or diesel fuel or (y) at least 75 miles per gallon equivalent while operating as a hybrid electric - gasoline or eletric - diesel vehicle or (z) at least 75 miles per gallon equivalent while operating as a fully electric vehicle)
................................................................
I realize that you are upset that your capital has been tied up so long, but don't cut off your nose to spite your face.
I'm sure you will find people working for EM who are good lawyers and accountants.

 

[Rickb]

When Elio fans have followed EM since 2008, are one of the first all-ins in line, still supporting without question a couple of delays, because stuff happens and then discovers that EM is having some credibility issues relating to funding they said they had, the engine start event delay with still no reschedule announcement, along with no progress over the past 6 months, and today's Elio Three Wheelin Can Elio Achieve $6800 fluff, a person that has been in it for only a year or two has to be a little patient and understaning with why the looooooooooong time fans are disappointed, begin to question EM's credibility, and yes are even pissed off by the current situation while EM is trolling for funding to get back on track.

 

[Bert]

Past fanatic, what you're bringing up has been responded to multiple times on this website alone! I'd hope you're up to search out the answers here!
Long story short, each section in the ATVM application, is individual options to apply, not a line by line guide.
Also, the ATVM does accept computer simulations and those results as proof of concept!

If you don't want the Elio, then perhaps this isn't the website for you. I've found the core group here to be rational, well thought out, as well as understanding during reasonable interactions here.

You, it seems, are just crying for attention. IMO

 

[WilliamH]

When Elio fans have followed EM since 2008, are one of the first all-ins in line, still supporting without question a couple of delays, because stuff happens and then discovers that EM is having some credibility issues relating to funding they said they had, the engine start event delay with still no reschedule announcement, along with no progress over the past 6 months, and today's Elio Three Wheelin Can Elio Achieve $6800 fluff, a person that has been in it for only a year or two has to be a little patient and understaning with why the looooooooooong time fans are disappointed, begin to question EM's credibility, and yes are even pissed off by the current situation while EM is trolling for funding to get back on track.

Rick,
I can appreciate it more than you know having been the principal defendant in a 3-1/2 year long lawsuit by a multimillionaire against a rural HOA.
But, when someone tries to poison the well that we are all waiting to drink from, I get annoyed.
All I could see was someone who wanted to be right in his opinion even if he poisoned the well for everyone.
The bureaucratic regulations aren't that easy to read. I spent 3-1/2 years learning to read Texas code so that I could do due diligence in oversight over our insurance company provided attorneys, one of whom was admitted to practice before SCOTUS.
I want Elio to be successful for all of us.

 

[JEBar]

When Elio fans have followed EM since 2008, are one of the first all-ins in line, still supporting without question a couple of delays, because stuff happens and then discovers that EM is having some credibility issues relating to funding they said they had, the engine start event delay with still no reschedule announcement, along with no progress over the past 6 months, and today's Elio Three Wheelin Can Elio Achieve $6800 fluff, a person that has been in it for only a year or two has to be a little patient and understaning with why the looooooooooong time fans are disappointed, begin to question EM's credibility, and yes are even pissed off by the current situation while EM is trolling for funding to get back on track.

to me its easy to understand their frustration .... knowing full well that this is an independent forum with no active members who work for EM, what's not so easy to understand is why they feel obliged to vent their frustrations here by raising both legitimate as well as deliberately contrived grievances here .... to accomplish anything they need to get EM's attention which can be done through EM's website, Facebook or a few other avenues .... one classic response to that question is for them to report to have have behaved in such a manner that they have been banned from EM's sites .... so for some reason they bring that same type behavior here .... I have no problem with anyone raising legitimate questions but do have a problem with those who do so in a manner that will take away from folks who come here for positive reasons

 

[NSTG8R]

Past fanatic, what you're bringing up has been responded to multiple times on this website alone! I'd hope you're up to search out the answers here!
Long story short, each section in the ATVM application, is individual options to apply, not a line by line guide.
Also, the ATVM does accept computer simulations and those results as proof of concept!

If you don't want the Elio, then perhaps this isn't the website for you. I've found the core group here to be rational, well thought out, as well as understanding during reasonable interactions here.

You, it seems, are just crying for attention. IMO

I'm betting his blood-type is 'B - Negative' too.