I Remember This Forum ...

[JEBar]

I remember this forum when I first came to it. It was filled with excited people full of expectations and sharing a common energy of looking forward to something good in the future.

Things have changed recently.

A few extreme naysayers have been predicting doom and gloom and recently things have taking a turn for the worse. But do know this: they have no more insight into matters than the rest of us. Their negativity is due to their own personal anguish inside them.

The ranks may thin out on this forum but when funding comes through, which I believe it will, the old members will come back and the excitement will be even greater than before. It will be like greeting old friends we never met.

I agree with your assessment about the change in nature/atmosphere of this forum and that if/when funding comes through there will be a marked elevation in excitement

I agree - the seeming lack of product news out of EM has limited the discussion

What isn't helping is the constant recycling of old news from EM. I'm sure there are plenty of new potential customers out there, but reprinting the same tired old pictures over the same tired old ads .....

Right now, Elio Owners is the most powerful marketing tool the company has in its corner.

a few of the openly hostile members here (not to mention the even more hostile folks on anti EM sites) have shown just how guarded EM has to be in the nature and scope of info they release .... as examples, these folks twist missing a target date into being an out and out lie .... they take a truthful statement by Paul that right now they are a bit below hoped for MPG/engine HP/base price targets and such as proving they never will reach them and are dishonest in continuing to take reservations .... all that being said, I do believe that EM's handling of publicity and news releases leaves much to be desired .... Paul or whoever is in charge of this area needs some serious training .... here again, as an example : the release of the video of the motor running was and still is a big deal to most of EM's supporters .... weeks have passed and nothing but a comment that they are just under HP projections .... given that EM doesn't have a huge workforce and there is no doubt their personnel are all busy .... as noted above, Elio reservation holders and other interested supporters are a major strength .... one that they don't seem to have good handle on keeping them motivated as a positive force generating excitement and interest in the company

 

[Lil4X]

That's one of the points that a lot of our members here don't understand. We're getting a front row seat at the birth of a new automaker, one that may well revolutionize the industry. While not as unconventional as Tesla, it has the potential to become a major force in the future of the industry - simply by introducing a vehicle that is meant specifically for a single purpose, getting one person to and from work every day.

Every other automobile on the market is designed for four, five, or more persons. EM looked at the market differently: "Let's build a vehicle to serve the market that's out there on the freeways morning and evening, right NOW. That means for the most part, a commuter vehicle capable of carrying 1.3 people and a briefcase or lunchbox in safety and relative comfort, day in and day out at minimal cost. That's going to mean minimal fuel consumption and maintenance expense with high reliability.

From this point, the intricacies of engineering, manufacturing, and marketing begin to show up, along with a whole catalog of problems. OK, I worked in an oilfield environment where we were responsible for innovative heavy machinery - it didn't require anywhere near the volume production of an automotive company, but many of our challenges were similar. It became apparent quickly that even our industry-savvy customers had no idea of what we were up against. We didn't either, at least at first.

It's easy to say, "Why don't you build ___________ ? But there's a lot more to it than that. First you start with some knowledge of what's available and what your customer NEEDS. How are you going to design a product that will fill that niche? Engineers typically take off in some exotic direction, wanting to utilize dual-conversion phase shifters to fire the flux capacitor, producing omicron waves that will poke a hole in the ground. The guys in manufacturing want a new multi-axis NC machining center with a whole catalog of tools and tool-changers to build the product. The salesmen want something that's gold plated to dazzle the customers, the bean counters want something that can be made and sold profitably so they look good at the stockholders' meeting, and the guys in product service want something that will stop the customers from beating them over the head to produce something cheaper, better, and faster.

Then comes the big meeting where everybody lays their needs on the table. A whole lot of the above gets scrapped as the whole crew has to become a team - all pointed in one direction. The first articles are going to be simple, and as time goes on and field experience is gained with the product, it will begin to incorporate the changes the customers want - along with some better approaches to the initial design from engineering, more efficient casting, machining, fabrication and assembly techniques will be found by manufacturing teams, new applications will be found by sales, and service will develop simpler and less frequent service intervals. There's an old saying in the manufacturing business: "You don't want to buy Serial # 1 of anything." It's guaranteed to be an orphan in 30 days, and probably the first month's production run will be seeing many changes made on the fly.

Now imagine you were a fly on the wall during these product meetings. What you would hear would be raw ideas being threshed for their kernals, good ideas facing up to market reality, problems working into solutions, and dozens of things nobody ever considered arriving in your collective laps. That's the way it works . . . but from that fly on the wall's perspective, it's all a series of lies, half-truths, and skulduggery. He's getting all of the proposals - even the hare-brained ones - some of the plans that prove unworkable, the schedules that are sometimes unrealistic, and a whole lot of raw data that is really meaningless at that point. This is why manufacturers don't let the press cover engineering or product meetings. Like making sausage, it's an ugly business.

On the other hand, GM, Ford, et al. have "product announcements" - those slick, carefully orchestrated peeks behind the veil into a new product's development. Maybe it's just a silhouette, or a hint of a powertrain or a couple of basic options - but while it will probably arrive at market something like the press releases, you can be assured it will NOT be the product you first saw in the "artist's conception".
Elio is different. From the outset, we've been largely privy to every nuance in the development of the vehicle - from the front crush zone to the last flip of the ducktail. At this point, those of us who've followed the process haven't had any surprises. A couple percentage points off the target horsepower isn't a biggie. It's not some vast corporate lie, it's the difference between a concept and reality. A tweak or two here and there will fix that. It's why we build "prototypes", to be sure the performance on the CAD drawing is met "in steel".

Unlike the major automakers, we're seeing the sausage being made. We're participants in those meetings, we are getting the latest thinking from the engineers, designers, the vendors, the manufacturing shops and the assembly floor. We have to realize we're getting information largely unfiltered by the publicity flacks - we're getting to watch the whole process over the shoulders of the product managers, engineers, manufacturing foremen and the vendors as they develop an entirely new vehicle from the ground up. It's well worth remembering that while Ford, GM, Toyota, Honda, and others can do all this in a couple of years, they are modifying an existing design. EM is starting from scratch - while we watch from the stands.

 

[Ty]

Third time through it clicked. J

That's one of the points that a lot of our members here don't understand. We're getting a front row seat at the birth of a new automaker, one that may well revolutionize the industry. While not as unconventional as Tesla, it has the potential to become a major force in the future of the industry - simply by introducing a vehicle that is meant specifically for a single purpose, getting one person to and from work every day.

Every other automobile on the market is designed for four, five, or more persons. EM looked at the market differently: "Let's build a vehicle to serve the market that's out there on the freeways morning and evening, right NOW. That means for the most part, a commuter vehicle capable of carrying 1.3 people and a briefcase or lunchbox in safety and relative comfort, day in and day out at minimal cost. That's going to mean minimal fuel consumption and maintenance expense with high reliability.

From this point, the intricacies of engineering, manufacturing, and marketing begin to show up, along with a whole catalog of problems. OK, I worked in an oilfield environment where we were responsible for innovative heavy machinery - it didn't require anywhere near the volume production of an automotive company, but many of our challenges were similar. It became apparent quickly that even our industry-savvy customers had no idea of what we were up against. We didn't either, at least at first.

It's easy to say, "Why don't you build ___________ ? But there's a lot more to it than that. First you start with some knowledge of what's available and what your customer NEEDS. How are you going to design a product that will fill that niche? Engineers typically take off in some exotic direction, wanting to utilize dual-conversion phase shifters to fire the flux capacitor, producing omicron waves that will poke a hole in the ground. The guys in manufacturing want a new multi-axis NC machining center with a whole catalog of tools and tool-changers to build the product. The salesmen want something that's gold plated to dazzle the customers, the bean counters want something that can be made and sold profitably so they look good at the stockholders' meeting, and the guys in product service want something that will stop the customers from beating them over the head to produce something cheaper, better, and faster.

Then comes the big meeting where everybody lays their needs on the table. A whole lot of the above gets scrapped as the whole crew has to become a team - all pointed in one direction. The first articles are going to be simple, and as time goes on and field experience is gained with the product, it will begin to incorporate the changes the customers want - along with some better approaches to the initial design from engineering, more efficient casting, machining, fabrication and assembly techniques will be found by manufacturing teams, new applications will be found by sales, and service will develop simpler and less frequent service intervals. There's an old saying in the manufacturing business: "You don't want to buy Serial # 1 of anything." It's guaranteed to be an orphan in 30 days, and probably the first month's production run will be seeing many changes made on the fly.

Now imagine you were a fly on the wall during these product meetings. What you would hear would be raw ideas being threshed for their kernals, good ideas facing up to market reality, problems working into solutions, and dozens of things nobody ever considered arriving in your collective laps. That's the way it works . . . but from that fly on the wall's perspective, it's all a series of lies, half-truths, and skulduggery. He's getting all of the proposals - even the hare-brained ones - some of the plans that prove unworkable, the schedules that are sometimes unrealistic, and a whole lot of raw data that is really meaningless at that point. This is why manufacturers don't let the press cover engineering or product meetings. Like making sausage, it's an ugly business.

On the other hand, GM, Ford, et al. have "product announcements" - those slick, carefully orchestrated peeks behind the veil into a new product's development. Maybe it's just a silhouette, or a hint of a powertrain or a couple of basic options - but while it will probably arrive at market something like the press releases, you can be assured it will NOT be the product you first saw in the "artist's conception".
Elio is different. From the outset, we've been largely privy to every nuance in the development of the vehicle - from the front crush zone to the last flip of the ducktail. At this point, those of us who've followed the process haven't had any surprises. A couple percentage points off the target horsepower isn't a biggie. It's not some vast corporate lie, it's the difference between a concept and reality. A tweak or two here and there will fix that. It's why we build "prototypes", to be sure the performance on the CAD drawing is met "in steel".

Unlike the major automakers, we're seeing the sausage being made. We're participants in those meetings, we are getting the latest thinking from the engineers, designers, the vendors, the manufacturing shops and the assembly floor. We have to realize we're getting information largely unfiltered by the publicity flacks - we're getting to watch the whole process over the shoulders of the product managers, engineers, manufacturing foremen and the vendors as they develop an entirely new vehicle from the ground up. It's well worth remembering that while Ford, GM, Toyota, Honda, and others can do all this in a couple of years, they are modifying an existing design. EM is starting from scratch - while we watch from the stands.

You know what? That was well said. You know what the public says when Ford misses a target production date? Nothing. They didn't know about it. With Elio, we know SO much about their process that any hiccup seems major. Did they miss estimated production dates? Yup. Did funding not happen like they said it would? Nope. There are speed bumps but they are just that - speed bumps. They don't stop forward progress, just slow it down a little. Sit back, relax, and enjoy seeing something great coming to fruition.

Again, well said.

 

[Neal]

Perhaps more discussioñ on the location of the fuel cap?

YES!

 

[Johnny Acree]

Way back when I was waiting on my smart. I wrote this in the smart forum.

Ignorance is bliss.
The first 7 months were easy, when I knew nothing. Then I found you guys and all this talk about reservation #s and confirmation dates and delivery dates and orphands and dealer opening dates and delayed dates and***!!! I just can't stand it

I wish I knew nothing.

 

[Ty]

Way back when I was waiting on my smart. I wrote this in the smart forum.

Ignorance is bliss.
The first 7 months were easy, when I knew nothing. Then I found you guys and all this talk about reservation #s and confirmation dates and delivery dates and orphands and dealer opening dates and delayed dates and***!!! I just can't stand it

I wish I knew nothing.

So, you are saying you want to be a {insert hated political party here}.

 

[LillyMayPatterson #1685 & #5648]

That's one of the points that a lot of our members here don't understand. We're getting a front row seat at the birth of a new automaker, one that may well revolutionize the industry.

Yep Yep YEP !!! I am having a time of my life watching this progression. For these guys to share with me their goals (NOT PROMISES, LOL) and let me peek in on the developments is a lot of fun and my hands aren't even getting dirty.

 

[BADBOY]

I have transportation until October when my leased Maxima will be returned. When I unexpectedly learned about the Elio, I was enthralled as it met my future needs in my retirement, and extremely reasonably priced, unusual look and great mileage. I will not get too focused until it is September and not enough money has been raised.

 

[Snick]

That's one of the points that a lot of our members here don't understand. We're getting a front row seat at the birth of a new automaker, one that may well revolutionize the industry. While not as unconventional as Tesla, it has the potential to become a major force in the future of the industry - simply by introducing a vehicle that is meant specifically for a singl

Every other automobile on the market is designed for four, five, or more persons. EM looked at the market differently: "Let's build a vehicle to serve the market that's out there on the freeways morning and evening, right NOW. That means for the most part, a commuter vehicle capable of carrying 1.3 people and a briefcase or lunchbox in safety and relative comfort, day in and day out at minimal cost. That's going to mean minimal fuel consumption and maintenance expense with high reliability.

From this point, the intricacies of engineering, manufacturing, and marketing begin to show up, along with a whole catalog of problems. OK, I worked in an oilfield environment where we were responsible for innovative heavy machinery - it didn't require anywhere near the volume production of an automotive company, but many of our challenges were similar. It became apparent quickly that even our industry-savvy customers had no idea of what we were up against. We didn't either, at least at first.

It's easy to say, "Why don't you build ___________ ? But there's a lot more to it than that. First you start with some knowledge of what's available and what your customer NEEDS. How are you going to design a product that will fill that niche? Engineers typically take off in some exotic direction, wanting to utilize dual-conversion phase shifters to fire the flux capacitor, producing omicron waves that will poke a hole in the ground. The guys in manufacturing want a new multi-axis NC machining center with a whole catalog of tools and tool-changers to build the product. The salesmen want something that's gold plated to dazzle the customers, the bean counters want something that can be made and sold profitably so they look good at the stockholders' meeting, and the guys in product service want something that will stop the customers from beating them over the head to produce something cheaper, better, and faster.

Then comes the big meeting where everybody lays their needs on the table. A whole lot of the above gets scrapped as the whole crew has to become a team - all pointed in one direction. The first articles are going to be simple, and as time goes on and field experience is gained with the product, it will begin to incorporate the changes the customers want - along with some better approaches to the initial design from engineering, more efficient casting, machining, fabrication and assembly techniques will be found by manufacturing teams, new applications will be found by sales, and service will develop simpler and less frequent service intervals. There's an old saying in the manufacturing business: "You don't want to buy Serial # 1 of anything." It's guaranteed to be an orphan in 30 days, and probably the first month's production run will be seeing many changes made on the fly.

Now imagine you were a fly on the wall during these product meetings. What you would hear would be raw ideas being threshed for their kernals, good ideas facing up to market reality, problems working into solutions, and dozens of things nobody ever considered arriving in your collective laps. That's the way it works . . . but from that fly on the wall's perspective, it's all a series of lies, half-truths, and skulduggery. He's getting all of the proposals - even the hare-brained ones - some of the plans that prove unworkable, the schedules that are sometimes unrealistic, and a whole lot of raw data that is really meaningless at that point. This is why manufacturers don't let the press cover engineering or product meetings. Like making sausage, it's an ugly business.

On the other hand, GM, Ford, et al. have "product announcements" - those slick, carefully orchestrated peeks behind the veil into a new product's development. Maybe it's just a silhouette, or a hint of a powertrain or a couple of basic options - but while it will probably arrive at market something like the press releases, you can be assured it will NOT be the product you first saw in the "artist's conception".
Elio is different. From the outset, we've been largely privy to every nuance in the development of the vehicle - from the front crush zone to the last flip of the ducktail. At this point, those of us who've followed the process haven't had any surprises. A couple percentage points off the target horsepower isn't a biggie. It's not some vast corporate lie, it's the difference between a concept and reality. A tweak or two here and there will fix that. It's why we build "prototypes", to be sure the performance on the CAD drawing is met "in steel".

Unlike the major automakers, we're seeing the sausage being made. We're participants in those meetings, we are getting the latest thinking from the engineers, designers, the vendors, the manufacturing shops and the assembly floor. We have to realize we're getting information largely unfiltered by the publicity flacks - we're getting to watch the whole process over the shoulders of the product managers, engineers, manufacturing foremen and the vendors as they develop an entirely new vehicle from the ground up. It's well worth remembering that while Ford, GM, Toyota, Honda, and others can do all this in a couple of years, they are modifying an existing design. EM is starting from scratch - while we watch from the stands.

It also bears mentioning the obvious: Ford and the "majors" in automotive talent have VASTLY more engineering talent and capability than IAV can even dream of, and more overall talent and competency than EM has, so their sausage-making process is more plain and "been there, done that". If EM survives and thrives ten years and 3 product release cycles, they will have at least scratched an itch that American industry had been needing for 50+ years, badly.

 

[Smitty901]

50 years from now some kid will find a reference to this sight. And for awhile some will believe that there really was an ELIO.
The internet lives forever.
If they ever build the ELIO 8019 is mine. And I will order at least one more the day product starts. Not holding my breath bought a new car last winter and new bike coming in August not making any plans based on PE production.