1/15/2014 - Ksla - Elio Motors Announces Delay, Production Expected To Start In 2016

[NSTG8R]

Boeing has a few thousand more parts and a little more high tech than a GO CART.
Since you want a comparison how about Nascar and Top Fuel Drag cars. They build new ones every year and compared to the Elio that is still High Tech to a GO CART.
Anyway Paul says MOST PARTS are off the shelf.

True! A commercial jet has probably millions of parts, but Boeing has been a company for 98 years, has hundreds of thousands of direct, and indirect employees, all around the planet, with hundreds of billions of dollars to play with...and delays still happen. That was the point I was trying to convey.

 

[NSTG8R]

WOW...Elio and Boeing...that's an interesting comparison...

The "Dreamliner" & the Elio Vehicle...I never though of them as similar concepts...

You need to learn to read between the lines, Tex.

 

[Catia]

After 7 years of attempting to obtain financing to further R&D of a "mythical vehicle"...it's probably time to face the obvious reality...

He's already squandered 65 million...and still not a single specification ready prototype has been built ...and yet Mr Elio wants to find investors that will pour another 240 million down the rabbit hole...not very likely!

It time for Mr Elio is start offering refunds to those non-refundable deposit holders who have lost confidence...and wish to have their money returned...

If he truly has any ethic's...the offer to make refunds should start immediately!

Your negative is getting very bored and pointless....

 

[Johnny Acree]

Some one will correct me, I'm sure, if I'm wrong.
The problem is not in building the "Go Kart". It's calling up all the venders and placing an order for 60,000 units of what each is selling. I don't think you can do that on a handshake.

 

[Cache Man]

Ford didn't delay it for 3 years as Elio has done. Think on that.

Ford original company was founded in 1903 with John and Horace Dodge (Later Dodge Motor Company). With the original start-up company being created 1901 (Later called Cadillac Motor Company). His first "mule" was created in 1896 with the help of Carl Benz. Ford's new engine was created in 1908 which was intended for the Model T. The first moving assembly line was introduced in 1913. In 1930 the Model A was introduced. Ford introduced the first low price V8 powered car in 1932.

Anywhere in this time line there could easily be a 3 year delay in development and/or introduction. Note that because of Henry Ford's actions we have the USA auto industry.

This is not directed to any one person... But please stop fault finding and criticizing. Constructive criticism is good with facts rather than limited to a personal perspective. I understand that you are disappointed like many including myself, but what you are doing is creating issues rather than solving them. Unless you are working somehow with Elio you are along for the ride like the rest of us.

Have you ever or do you recall riding in a car with someone that is doing nothing but complaining? Not fun. You are in the Elio Owner "car". Your actions will never speed up the process but surely can slow it down by removing the hope or drive to see it through.

How often have you worked harder or had more drive when someone is looking over your shoulder being critical saying you're wrong, you are a horrible person, you liar, you're going to cheat us, this will never work, what you are doing isn't good or good enough! Mr Paul Elio "let us into his house" so we can see what is going on... good or otherwise. There are many successes in the development and the schedule slip is what it is. Please... Enough.

 

[Ekh]

I think -- and this is only my opinion, but an experienced one -- that Elio's PR approach has caused problems. They have in fact been more transparent than almost any engineering-driven company I can think of (and I've known more than a few). But they have not been transparent enough in the right places.

Let me explain. Had Paul Elio said last summer, "we think we're in good enough shape to get to production, but we still need $185 million to begin production. So right now, we are not looking for additional investment partners. However, if things should change, we may start looking for additional revenue and in that case, we'll let you know," we would not be dealing with the feelings of betrayal that have prompted the uproar on this forum. Instead he said, "We have the money to get us to production, and we're not looking for other investors."

Accordingly, when it turns out things have changed, he's forced to backtrack and blow his credibility.

This has been made worse because actual events (or lack thereof) have made it look as if he were lying. The 25 prototypes were supposedly funded. But production has not started on them. The first engine also took longer than expected to be machined -- months longer. Regarding the prototypes, the excuse was that engines were needed prior to beginning production of the prototypes. Nonsense. You have to be able to get the engine in and out of a car, so don't tell me you couldn't build the prototypes and drop the engine/tranny in later. To many folks, these delays in engine development and prototype build have a bad smell. Then the financial news breaks, and the yelling begins.

This could have been avoided had Paul said in early October that funding was not coming through as expected, and as a result engine and prototype builds would be put on slow-ahead, which might cause production delays down the line -- we will let you know as circumstances occur. Instead, everything's rosy til suddenly it isn't.

I do not think Paul Elio has been lying. But he has been concealing, or at best downplaying, bumps in the road -- that's the first instinct of most people and of ALL engineering-based firms. Many PR people will go along with that; only a few say "better to take your lumps and keep your credibility." The trouble with concealing the bumps is that they may cause bigger problems later -- as has been the case this time. It's hard to do, but you get better results from being even MORE open than Elio has been until now.

 

[AriLea]

I think -- and this is only my opinion, but an experienced one -- that Elio's PR approach has caused problems. They have in fact been more transparent than almost any engineering-driven company I can think of (and I've known more than a few). But they have not been transparent enough in the right places. . .
Let me explain. It's hard to do, but you get better results from being even MORE open than Elio has been until now.

Sorry to over post so dang much, but I just wanted to say you made a very good case for at least a couple points.

 

[Cache Man]

I think -- and this is only my opinion, but an experienced one -- that Elio's PR approach has caused problems... they have not been transparent enough in the right places...... everything's rosy til suddenly it isn't.

... I do not think Paul Elio has been lying. But he has been concealing, or at best downplaying, bumps in the road -- that's the first instinct of most people and of ALL engineering-based firms. Many PR people will go along with that; only a few say "better to take your lumps and keep your credibility." The trouble with concealing the bumps is that they may cause bigger problems later -- as has been the case this time. It's hard to do, but you get better results from being even MORE open than Elio has been until now.

Ekh, Good form! Thanks for the points of concern with suggestions of what could have happened better to help correct the actions in the future!

Ekh has good points and a few good assumptions that outwardly appear to be founded. To emphasize Ekh's comments, I do not think Paul Elio has been lying. This would show intent to deceive. I don't think anyone of use by nature are really good at looking ahead until we have experiences through training or life. I don't feel Paul Elio is a "politics" man and that is why there is a PR group. I haven't met a good engineer that is good at this also, even though I feel he does pretty good in the interviews.

The funding seems to be the biggest issue and all other issues seem to circle around this. To Ekh's point, and to use a phrase my Grandfather said, "It is hard to get the horse back into the barn after its out." How I see this phrase being used in Elio's case is that he has been very transparent in the workings and development of the Elio Motor Company. Because of this and the way the info was presented... it makes the group appear to have missed points and/or seem intentionally not presented info expeditiously when known.

Was the monies information and delay notice not presented until the last possible moment to gain sales or was it a PR decision to "time" its release? And/or was there an internal hope that the money issue would be solved and Elio was waiting to the last possible moment in hopes it would be? Was it for some other reason? I don't know.

I do feel that Elio's PR may have overlooked the unforeseen financial item or was hoping it might change before it was an issue to disclose. But since Elio has been fully open about the progress I can agree it seemingly appears that not all information was freely disclosed, which gives an impression of intent. Again, I don't feel there was an intent to keep info from us.

With help from constructive comments like the one from Ekh, maybe The Elio Group is listening and can improve their communications.

 

[AriLea]

With help from constructive comments like the one from Ekh, maybe The Elio Group is listening and can improve their communications.

Jerome disclosed to me, he used to have a membership, but it's gotten too divisive in the forums sometimes, making the signal-to-noise level hard to parse though.

But we have a few people here that can talk to their birdies, and dialog on subjects like this.
Also as a mutually supportive group, if we carry the discussion to them for our group, we're pretty hard to ignore at those Elio demo events. !

 

[goofyone]

Jerome disclosed to me, he used to have a membership, but it's gotten too divisive in the forums sometimes, making the signal-to-noise level hard to parse though.

But we have a few people here that can talk to their birdies, and dialog on subjects like this.
Also as a mutually supportive group, if we carry the discussion to them for our group, we're pretty hard to ignore at those Elio demo events. !

Unfortunately EM personnel have pretty much disappeared from group membership in any open manner. In the past I have known of some lurker employee members here and Jerome was openly a member of the EMOA Facebook group, which is only open to reservation holders, until December but he pulled out of there last month after things become really nasty and hostile towards EM and dragging in EM personnel.