7/4/14 - Jo Borras Article: Elio Motors Q&a With Paul Elio... The A Part

[DBN477]

Well Elio responded but did not answer all the questions. The engine question. Clearly ignored the specifics of the question. Honda, Suzuki, Polaris have vehicles with engines that are similiar in weight to the Elio (not heavier). Warranty claims, come on, how many times is a dipstick replaced under warranty? Use a better example. Funding, the answer given, was what I expected. I sure hope everyone paid close attention to this comment "As we discussed, the funding process impacts the development timetable."

 

[ecdriver711]

Elio must believe that it is necessary to have a specific type engine to meet his price and performance.

 

[imageon]

Well Elio responded but did not answer all the questions. The engine question. Clearly ignored the specifics of the question. Honda, Suzuki, Polaris have vehicles with engines that are similiar in weight to the Elio (not heavier). Warranty claims, come on, how many times is a dipstick replaced under warranty? Use a better example. Funding, the answer given, was what I expected. I sure hope everyone paid close attention to this comment "As we discussed, the funding process impacts the development timetable."

I thought the dipstick analogy apropos
MK

 

[Jeff Porter]

Well Elio responded but did not answer all the questions. The engine question. Clearly ignored the specifics of the question. Honda, Suzuki, Polaris have vehicles with engines that are similiar in weight to the Elio (not heavier). Warranty claims, come on, how many times is a dipstick replaced under warranty? Use a better example. Funding, the answer given, was what I expected. I sure hope everyone paid close attention to this comment "As we discussed, the funding process impacts the development timetable."

Hi DB, hoping we can have a light-hearted discusson on this. Agree with you on the dipstick being a bad choice of a part that needs replaced. An oil cap would have been a better example, I've lost one before. On the engine question, there may be engines out there existing that give power to similar-weighted vehicles. I'm not knowledgeable enough to know or say that you can take an existing engine from a similar weighted vehicle and make it work for a different vehicle, and also: understand the engine now inside and out, have the engine be a desired weight, give the miles-per-gallon that you want, and there may be other reasons too. And the funding: I dunno, I would bet that if Elio was completely transparent with all of their funding plans, the current and potential investors would find reasons to pull their investment funds. And if Elio was transparent with their funding plans, we'd find reasons to disagree with the how and when and where. Agreed that if funding and investing down the road is slower than what EM wants, the development timetable will give delays.

The latest Tech Talk has some detailed questions and answers from an IAV guy. I would bet that we can go through his answers and come up with answers we feel are inadequate or incomplete. Nothing wrong with that, we can discuss them too! Part of the fun of the journey.

 

[Folks]

I believe I heard Paul mention that extra miles per gallon maybe accomplished with a longer stroke engine. In that an engine with a long enough stroke may not exist and that could be the reason why an exclusive Elio engine is a foot. As usual we sometimes underestimate the talent and ingenuity of Paul.
I know that the Wright brothers never really got appropriate credit for the true scientific genius required to engineer the Flyer.

 

[Ty]

Hi DB, hoping we can have a light-hearted discusson on this. Agree with you on the dipstick being a bad choice of a part that needs replaced. An oil cap would have been a better example, I've lost one before. On the engine question, there may be engines out there existing that give power to similar-weighted vehicles. I'm not knowledgeable enough to know or say that you can take an existing engine from a similar weighted vehicle and make it work for a different vehicle, and also: understand the engine now inside and out, have the engine be a desired weight, give the miles-per-gallon that you want, and there may be other reasons too. And the funding: I dunno, I would bet that if Elio was completely transparent with all of their funding plans, the current and potential investors would find reasons to pull their investment funds. And if Elio was transparent with their funding plans, we'd find reasons to disagree with the how and when and where. Agreed that if funding and investing down the road is slower than what EM wants, the development timetable will give delays.

The latest Tech Talk has some detailed questions and answers from an IAV guy. I would bet that we can go through his answers and come up with answers we feel are inadequate or incomplete. Nothing wrong with that, we can discuss them too! Part of the fun of the journey.

They probably can't go completely transparent as People tend to not REALLY want transparency. Burger King loves showing comercialls of that Flame broiled Wopper... But, they'll never show the cows being slaughtered. I say this meaning that, lets say, they show the engine being put together and then show the initial running of the engine and because of some imperfection in the casting (I've seen cylinder walls so thin the pressure of the mic measuring bore broke through), it shells itself. Now, that video or pictures BECOMES Elio. Same goes with the GM facility... If they show the actual condition, it could scare off investors. I think they are being pretty transparent in what they are doing and think that they would be unable to get too into their own finances as I'm sure there are investors who are worried about being embarassed if things go sideways -- Thus, they can't talk about those.

I believe I heard Paul mention that extra miles per gallon maybe accomplished with a longer stroke engine. In that an engine with a long enough stroke may not exist and that could be the reason why an exclusive Elio engine is a foot. As usual we sometimes underestimate the talent and ingenuity of Paul.
I know that the Wright brothers never really got appropriate credit for the true scientific genius required to engineer the Flyer.

If I recall correctly, the Wright brothers also designed their own engine...

 

[Dustoff]

Folks said:
I believe I heard Paul mention that extra miles per gallon maybe accomplished with a longer stroke engine. In that an engine with a long enough stroke may not exist and that could be the reason why an exclusive Elio engine is a foot. As usual we sometimes underestimate the talent and ingenuity of Paul.
I know that the Wright brothers never really got appropriate credit for the true scientific genius required to engineer the Flyer.

Ty said:
If I recall correctly, the Wright brothers also designed their own engine...

From the Smithsonian National Air And Space Museum:

How the Wright engine worked
The Wright engine, with its aluminum crankcase, marked the first time this breakthrough material was used in aircraft construction. Lightweight aluminum became essential in aircraft design development and remains a primary construction material for all types of aircraft.

The engine had no fuel pump, carburetor, or spark plugs. Nor did it have a throttle. Yet the simple motor produced 12 horsepower, an acceptable margin above the Wrights’ minimum requirement of 8 horsepower. Gasoline was gravity fed from a small quart-and-a-half tank mounted on a strut below the upper wing. The gasoline entered a shallow chamber next to the cylinders and mixed with the incoming air. Heat from the crankcase vaporized the fuel-air mixture, causing it to pass through the intake manifold into the cylinders.

Ignition was produced by opening and closing two contact breaker points in the combustion chamber of each cylinder via a camshaft. The initial spark for starting the engine was generated with a coil and four dry-cell batteries, not carried on the airplane. A low-tension magneto driven by a 20-pound flywheel supplied electric current while the engine was running.

I still hold an A&P Mechanic Certificate and this was one of the first things we learned in Power Plant School.

 

[Ty]

Folks said:
I believe I heard Paul mention that extra miles per gallon maybe accomplished with a longer stroke engine. In that an engine with a long enough stroke may not exist and that could be the reason why an exclusive Elio engine is a foot. As usual we sometimes underestimate the talent and ingenuity of Paul.
I know that the Wright brothers never really got appropriate credit for the true scientific genius required to engineer the Flyer.

Ty said:
If I recall correctly, the Wright brothers also designed their own engine...

From the Smithsonian National Air And Space Museum:

How the Wright engine worked
The Wright engine, with its aluminum crankcase, marked the first time this breakthrough material was used in aircraft construction. Lightweight aluminum became essential in aircraft design development and remains a primary construction material for all types of aircraft.

The engine had no fuel pump, carburetor, or spark plugs. Nor did it have a throttle. Yet the simple motor produced 12 horsepower, an acceptable margin above the Wrights’ minimum requirement of 8 horsepower. Gasoline was gravity fed from a small quart-and-a-half tank mounted on a strut below the upper wing. The gasoline entered a shallow chamber next to the cylinders and mixed with the incoming air. Heat from the crankcase vaporized the fuel-air mixture, causing it to pass through the intake manifold into the cylinders.

Ignition was produced by opening and closing two contact breaker points in the combustion chamber of each cylinder via a camshaft. The initial spark for starting the engine was generated with a coil and four dry-cell batteries, not carried on the airplane. A low-tension magneto driven by a 20-pound flywheel supplied electric current while the engine was running.

I still hold an A&P Mechanic Certificate and this was one of the first things we learned in Power Plant School.

Cool. thanks.

 

[Chris F]

Yes, I am just guessing here, but they MUST have raised some funds from Venture Capital firms or other investors in order to keep paying IAV for the development work--which usually means bad repayment terms. I am hoping this doesn't put EM into an overly tight financial position. I would hate to see EM succeed technically and operationally and yet fail financially.

I am rooting for them--but I'm just realistic because I work in a highly regulated (medical device) business in both new product and process development/engineering and I understand the technical and execution risks better than most. My analogy for the layperson is this: imagine you have to assemble a 2000 piece jigsaw puzzle in a small airplane flying through turbulence. And no glue and no cheating is allowed!

THIS is what EM is up against, not to mention the financial complications which can paint them into an almost garunteed failure. ( I said *CAN*, not will, so don't freak on me, dear readers).

I do Reg D filings for a living. The Form D is just a notice that the issuer sold securities in an offering. Not all sales of securities are "offerings" for which a notice must be filed. Not all financings constitute sales of securities. It is impossible from a review of Form D's to know a company's actual financial condition. If (or when) EM becomes a reporting company, then you will see real financial statements.

Chris F

 

[Snick]

I do Reg D filings for a living. The Form D is just a notice that the issuer sold securities in an offering. Not all sales of securities are "offerings" for which a notice must be filed. Not all financings constitute sales of securities. It is impossible from a review of Form D's to know a company's actual financial condition. If (or when) EM becomes a reporting company, then you will see real financial statements.

Chris F

very good info, thanks. Are there any public filings or clues we can put together to better determine EM's financial health? I am hoping you are a financial forensics expert or someone else on the board is.